Holy Spirit in OT believers, or upon OT believers?

[Dave...]

The contention between people is the capacity in which the Prophets, and some kings etc. had the Holy Spirit. It's not taught in Scripture that the general Old Testament believer had this, no matter how one defines what the prophets, kings and a few others had. The common believer had the presence of God when those Prophets etc. who had the Holy Spirit were near them. They had the presence of God in the Temple, and they had the presence of God in Jesus, God incarnate. So, setting the common believer aside, unless one wants to offer Biblical proof that indicates something other that what I wrote here.

I want to get into some of these proof verses used to prove that the holy Spirit was in OT Prophets. Start with these.

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Genesis 41:38, This is Pharaoh recognizing that the Spirit of God is working through Joseph. It's Pharaohs perspective recorded, and he could not know if the Spirit of God was in Joseph or upon him. He only recognized that what happened through Joseph was from God, not Joseph. It's called a 'narrative description' rather than a source for strict systematic doctrine. This does not teach that the Holy Spirit was in him.
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Numbers 27:18 There is no "the" before the word "spirit" in the original languages of this passage, only "spirit". KJV translators added "the" it to make the English smoother, and was never added to make the claim the the Spirit was within him. It literally reads "a man in whom is spirit". The lack of the definite article has most credible theologians agreeing that that passage is speaking of a quality, or attitude of spirit. However, in Numbers 11:17, we see how the Hebrew language works when they want to specify the Divine source, they use a definite article. Speaking to Moses.....Numbers 11:17 " Then I will come down and talk with you there. I will take of the Spirit that is upon you and will put the same upon them; and they shall bear the burden of the people with you, that you may not bear it yourself alone." This is not teaching that the holy spirit was in him.
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Isaiah 63:11 KJV reflects back to that same Numbers 11:17. Remember, "upon you", and "upon them" from Numbers 11:17? Same people. The literal translation options for Isaiah 63:11 are "in the midst," "the inner part," or "among them". When applied to the camp of Israel, a collective group (which is what "within him" from Isaiah 63:11 is speaking of), it's always translated "in the midst", or "among them". Remember, the singular suffix ("his") in Isaiah 63:11 refers to the corporate body of Israel.

 

[Ben1445]

John 16:7
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.


The Holy Spirit was not given as we have received Him now until after the ascension of Jesus Christ.

(Not sure how this is an Arminian-Calvinist issue)

 

[kyredneck]

2011 - Were OT Saints Indwelt?

 

[Armchair Apologist]

I know that the indwelling Holy Spirit is very much a distinction of New Testament believers. In the Old Testament, you had the "Shekinah Glory" presence of God in the temple and it was for this reason that OT Believers prayed toward this temple because they were praying towards the very presence of God according to their understanding.

In the New Testament, we have the indwelling Holy Spirt and for a NT Believer, their very body IS the temple of the Holy Ghost!

We have this distinction and some try to associate this with "regeneration" and with David's prayer to "Take not thine Holy Spirit from me," some assumed such meant that one could actually "lose their salvation" in the OT which I adamantly reject. Regeneration is regeneration and justification is justification.

Men were "Annointed" for a special calling or task in the OT and I am not against associating such to NT believers (cultivating, exercising of spiritual gifts?). Such an annointing was different from the "seal of the Holy Spirit" and its being the "earnest of our inheritance" and so forth. I therefore believe that when David pleaded with God to "take not thine Holy Spirit from me" he was speaking of his annointing to be king and the covenant that God had established with him. God had taken this very same annointing from Saul and I'm certain David was quite mindful of this as he made this plea!

 

[Dave...]

2011 - Were OT Saints Indwelt?

That work by Hamilton sounds familiar. I'm sure that I've read it before, but a long time ago. One thing that I find odd about this whole debate is there is never a verse in the OT that I know of that says that actual believers were indwelt in the OT. The OT always uses people who were commanded by God to accomplish something (not coming to faith) who had the Spirit put upon them. Some people think that "upon" and "in" are the same thing. Some people think that it's the NT that allows the Spirit of God to have a union with the Spirit of Christ, but I've seen the Holy Spirit called the Spirit of Christ in the OT. Jonah comes to mind. I still suspect that there could be a difference beyond the obvious in relationship between believer and the Holy Spirit from the OT Holy Spirit and the NT Holy Spirit, something having to do with the works of Christ being accomplished. I believe the Holy Spirit coming upon at Pentecost would be explained by that. Either the disciples actually received the Holy Spirit Promised indwelling when Jesus breathed on them (still after the death and resurrection, but before the ascension), which could explain the "upon" in early Acts, or something else is going on. The translations are not always the best, so that's always something to keep an eye on.

I try to use the clear scripture to make a path, then I take a second look at some of the stuff that does line up perfect. There just so much that defines what happened at Pentecost, it's hard to rewrite all that for a few passages that don't line up perfectly.

Some people appeal to David asking the Father not to take His Spirit from Him, but that passage does not specify indwelling. And there are so many verses speaking of the coming of the Holy spirit, not a dose, but the actual indwelling, which is what the baptism with the Holy Spirit is.

 

[kyredneck]

“…When I consider passages such as this:

I rejoice at thy word, As one that findeth great spoil. Ps 119:162

or this:

But his delight is in the law of Jehovah; And on his law doth he meditate day and night. Ps 1:2

or these:

16 I will delight myself in thy statutes: I will not forget thy word. GIMEL.
18 Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold Wondrous things out of thy law. Ps 119

...and then consider that those OT Saints had only a fraction of the scriptures that we have; it was incomplete and lacking the fulfillment/revelation of the NT, and yet they were able to derive great joy and delight from meditating in the law. I don't think the natural man void of the Spirit could derive that sort of pleasure from those incomplete writings (or even in the Bible we have today for that matter), the Spirit had to be the source of the joy.

jmho…”

 

[YeshuaistheLord]

I know that the indwelling Holy Spirit is very much a distinction of New Testament believers. In the Old Testament, you had the "Shekinah Glory" presence of God in the temple and it was for this reason that OT Believers prayed toward this temple because they were praying towards the very presence of God according to their understanding.

In the New Testament, we have the indwelling Holy Spirt and for a NT Believer, their very body IS the temple of the Holy Ghost!

We have this distinction and some try to associate this with "regeneration" and with David's prayer to "Take not thine Holy Spirit from me," some assumed such meant that one could actually "lose their salvation" in the OT which I adamantly reject. Regeneration is regeneration and justification is justification.

Men were "Annointed" for a special calling or task in the OT and I am not against associating such to NT believers (cultivating, exercising of spiritual gifts?). Such an annointing was different from the "seal of the Holy Spirit" and its being the "earnest of our inheritance" and so forth. I therefore believe that when David pleaded with God to "take not thine Holy Spirit from me" he was speaking of his annointing to be king and the covenant that God had established with him. God had taken this very same annointing from Saul and I'm certain David was quite mindful of this as he made this plea!

The Holy Spiirt came upon Prophets Kings Priests but for specific tasks and calling not indwelling and sealed in all it seems