Women are Not to Teach or Usurp Authority...

[Silverhair]

Then you have to admit that nobody can say God is using Trump to do His will because it may not be true. I can say for certain that God wants to use all of us to share the Gospel to others.

And I agree that God wants to use all Christians to share the gospel message. That includes the women which you seem to have a problem with.

 

[Foxmeister]

And I agree that God wants to use all Christians to share the gospel message. That includes the women which you seem to have a problem with.

Women can be used in the ministry as Phoebe and Priscilla had been, but they cannot be pastors or elders.

Read 1 Timothy 3:1–7, Titus 1:5–9, and 1 Peter 5:1–4. These scriptures specifically say pastors, deacons, and elders must be men.

 

[Ascetic X]

And I agree that God wants to use all Christians to share the gospel message. That includes the women which you seem to have a problem with.

Apostle Paul has a problem with women as pastors and preachers.

Women can share the gospel, but not as a pastor, according to I Timothy 2:12.

Have you ever had a female pastor?

Have you ever attended a church with a female giving the sermon?

 

[Foxmeister]

Apostle Paul has a problem with women as pastors and preachers.

Have you ever had a female pastor?

Have you ever attended a church with a female giving the sermon?

Many years ago, I attended a Methodist church on Sundays. The pastor who was a male left and was replaced by a female. It was a small church.. The woman pastor destroyed the church. Everyone but one family left it. The church was then closed down. She was very controlling and divisive. Her judgement was very poor.

 

[Kai]

So when those in Rome had Phoebe who had firsthand knowledge as she was with Paul had questions then she could answers.

You seem to be saying that Scripture alone isn’t sufficient—that we also require the opinions and interpretations of fallible men for us to make heads or tails out of it.

 

[Silverhair]

Women can be used in the ministry as Phoebe and Priscilla had been, but they cannot be pastors or elders.

Read 1 Timothy 3:1–7, Titus 1:5–9, and 1 Peter 5:1–4. These scriptures specifically say pastors, deacons, and elders must be men.

In that culture that would be the only acceptable thing as women were not consider to be equal or educated.

 

[Silverhair]

Apostle Paul has a problem with women as pastors and preachers.

Women can share the gospel, but not as a pastor, according to I Timothy 2:12.

Have you ever had a female pastor?

Have you ever attended a church with a female giving the sermon?

Have not had a female pastor but have heard a female give a sermon and she actually did a better exegesis of the text than many men I have heard.

 

[Foxmeister]

In that culture that would be the only acceptable thing as women were not consider to be equal or educated.

So, what you're saying is those scriptures no longer apply today because the cultural norms have changed. Then that means you also believe other scriptures no longer pertain to today because other cultural norms have changed. The reality is you pick and choose what scriptures no longer apply because of your cultural beliefs. In other words, you don't always agree with God.

 

[Silverhair]

You seem to be saying that Scripture alone isn’t sufficient—that we also require the opinions and interpretations of fallible men for us to make heads or tails out of it.

No that is not what I have been saying.

What I have been saying and you seem to have ignored is that I trust God to use whomever He choose when He chooses how He chooses.

I have a question for you @Kai, who is the Great commission for?

 

[Silverhair]

So, what you're saying is those scriptures no longer apply today because the cultural norms have changed. Then that means you also believe other scriptures no longer pertain to today because other cultural norms have changed. The reality is you pick and choose what scriptures no longer apply because of your cultural beliefs. In other words, you don't always agree with God.

I am saying that what Paul wrote was for Ephesus and Corinth due to the situations in those churches.

How many times must I say "I trust God to use whomever He choose when He chooses how He chooses" before you finally under those words.

I will ask you the same question I asked Kai, who is the Great commission for?

 

[Ascetic X]

How many times must I say "I trust God to use whomever He choose when He chooses how He chooses" before you finally under those words.

If a woman becomes a preaching pastor, does that mean God chooses to use her in this office?

I attended a church where lesbian deacons preached sermons. Was God choosing to use them?

Just because someone does something in a church does not mean that God is choosing to use them.

A person rebelling against God’s Word is not being used by God.

 

[Silverhair]

If a woman becomes a preaching pastor, does that mean God chooses to use her in this office?

I attended a church where lesbian deacons preached sermons. Was God choosing to use them?

Just because someone does something in a church does not mean that God is choosing to use them.

The same can be said for male pastors @Ascetic X.

We are to judge them by their actions, do they teach the word of God or of man.

How many male pastors have failed because of sin in their lives or that actually teach false doctrine.

I do find it strange that those that rail against women pastors seem willing to over look the failings of male pastors.

 

[Ben1445]

That is not changing the scope @Ben1445, it is dealing directly with the subject. Are women allowed to teach, preach and/or be the pastor.

To go from the thread topic

“Women are Not to Teach or Usurp Authority...”​

To

I was referring to God using women in whatever capacity He chooses.

Is a big switch.
Women in authority and women having any purpose at all is changing the scope. I didn’t say changing the subject. I said changing the amount of topic in view.
And since you are changing it, it looks bad on your argument.

So not losing the debate as you seem to think.

It looks perfectly clear to me.

I am asking a direct question that you and the others do not want to address.

Yes. God can use women to do whatever He wants. Scripture is clear about what God wants.
The real question is not can God use them as pastors.
The real question is does God want to use them as pastors.

So because Scripture is clear that it is not Gods intention that women be pastors, I don’t know why you want to convince us all against conscience to say that women pastors are the way God intended.

God can use a donkey to preach. It would be pretty bad if the church was so disobedient it got to that level.

 

[Silverhair]

A question for all of you that do not seem to trust God.

Were these women used by God or not? Did the preach or not?

Gladys Aylward left her home in England in 1930 to follow God’s call to China, on the other side of the world. She left home with no support system and no money to be obedient to God’s call. With the Sino-Japanese War waging around her, she struggled to bring the basics of life and the fullness of God to orphaned children.She loved the people of China and Taiwan over a 40 year spread.

Amy Carmichael was an Irish missionary who served in India for over 50 years. She founded orphanages, rescued young children from sex trafficking and forced prostitution, and shared the Gospel in a country that was hostile to Christ. She worked tirelessly for decades and wrote over 35 books about her time serving in India and South Asia.

Lottie Moon was a female missionary who was raised in the United States and in the Southern Baptist tradition, but only came to know Jesus at the age of 18. After she became a Christian she felt called to join the mission field in China and become a teacher. She taught for years in China and also founded the Women’s Missionary Society. Lottie was a huge advocate for women in the mission field and spoke out on behalf of women who felt called to support the local church through mission work.

Mary Slessor was a unique woman and missionary whose life story is an amazing inspiration for all believers and missionaries. She was called to mission and set sail for West Africa in 1876. There she worked to end infanticide in Nigeria and share the good news of Jesus. Slessor learned the language of the Nigerian people and gained their trust, which allowed her to fight for women’s rights, fight infanticide, and spread the name of Jesus.

Elisabeth Elliot was one of the most famous woman missionaries. She is known for sharing the Gospel with the tribe of people who killed her husband. After a tragedy where her husband, Jim Elliot, and his partners were killed by the people of the Huaorani Tribe, she learned the language, and returned to live with the tribe. Over time she befriended many of the Huaorani, even those who were involved in the killing of her husband.

 

[Ben1445]

The same can be said for male pastors @Ascetic X.

We are to judge them by their actions, do they teach the word of God or of man.

How many male pastors have failed because of sin in their lives or that actually teach false doctrine.

I do find it strange that those that rail against women pastors seem willing to over look the failings of male pastors.

This is a deflection from the topic. Nobody is saying that male pastors can do no wrong.

 

[Ben1445]

A question for all of you that do not seem to trust God.

Were these women used by God or not? Did the preach or not?

Gladys Aylward left her home in England in 1930 to follow God’s call to China, on the other side of the world. She left home with no support system and no money to be obedient to God’s call. With the Sino-Japanese War waging around her, she struggled to bring the basics of life and the fullness of God to orphaned children.She loved the people of China and Taiwan over a 40 year spread.

Amy Carmichael was an Irish missionary who served in India for over 50 years. She founded orphanages, rescued young children from sex trafficking and forced prostitution, and shared the Gospel in a country that was hostile to Christ. She worked tirelessly for decades and wrote over 35 books about her time serving in India and South Asia.

Lottie Moon was a female missionary who was raised in the United States and in the Southern Baptist tradition, but only came to know Jesus at the age of 18. After she became a Christian she felt called to join the mission field in China and become a teacher. She taught for years in China and also founded the Women’s Missionary Society. Lottie was a huge advocate for women in the mission field and spoke out on behalf of women who felt called to support the local church through mission work.

Mary Slessor was a unique woman and missionary whose life story is an amazing inspiration for all believers and missionaries. She was called to mission and set sail for West Africa in 1876. There she worked to end infanticide in Nigeria and share the good news of Jesus. Slessor learned the language of the Nigerian people and gained their trust, which allowed her to fight for women’s rights, fight infanticide, and spread the name of Jesus.

Elisabeth Elliot was one of the most famous woman missionaries. She is known for sharing the Gospel with the tribe of people who killed her husband. After a tragedy where her husband, Jim Elliot, and his partners were killed by the people of the Huaorani Tribe, she learned the language, and returned to live with the tribe. Over time she befriended many of the Huaorani, even those who were involved in the killing of her husband.

You forgot to mention the churches that they were pastors of.

 

[Foxmeister]

I am saying that what Paul wrote was for Ephesus and Corinth due to the situations in those churches.

How many times must I say "I trust God to use whomever He choose when He chooses how He chooses" before you finally under those words.

I will ask you the same question I asked Kai, who is the Great commission for?

Paul did not say Phoebe was a pastor, deacon, or elder of the church. He asked she be received with Christian love and kindness. As for as the Great Commission is concerned, the Gospel is to be spread to all. The scriptures I provided clarifying the qualifications of pastors, elders, and deacons is a separate issue than the Gospel. Those scriptures do not say women cannot be involved in the ministry, they just can't fill those roles we're discussing,.

 

[Ascetic X]

A question for all of you that do not seem to trust God.

Why do you not trust God when He inspired Paul to forbid female teachers?

1 Timothy 2:12

But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

 

[Foxmeister]

Why do you not trust God when He inspired Paul to forbid female teachers?

1 Timothy 2:12

But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

He's deliberately taking Romans 16:1-2 out of context. It says in the KJV, "I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea: 2 That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also."

In the NJKV, it reads, "I commend to you Phoebe our sister, who is a servant of the church in Cenchrea, 2 that you may receive her in the Lord in a manner worthy of the saints, and assist her in whatever business she has need of you; for indeed she has been a helper of many and of myself also."

What he and many others don't understand that the Greek word diakonos for men is different when it is used for women. When used to describe the role of men it means deacon or minister. When it is used to describe the role of a woman, it means servant. Romans was written in Greek. People are often confused by this. The bottom line he doesn't understand that in its use for Phebe, Paul said she was a servant of the church.

 

[Silverhair]

So because Scripture is clear that it is not Gods intention that women be pastors, I don’t know why you want to convince us all against conscience to say that women pastors are the way God intended.

The thread topic was in relation to how God could use women in ministry. You hold to what Paul had said and I say the bible shows that God has and still does use whom He wants how He wants where He wants.

That is not changing the subject Ben

Why are you trying to convince me that that women cannot preach when I see that it is up to God to use the people He chooses to use.