Featured What Does Repent Mean?

Where did I say that?
Could you post that for me?
Where did you see me say anything close to that?

 

I certainly do believe God has decreed these godly men to be our teachers. Why else would He gift them, and then give these to the church? Note again Eph, 4:11ff. Also those who labor in the Word are worthy of double honor; 1 Timothy 5:17.

What I am seeing from jonc is subtle contempt for these that God has gifted. Then the other extreme charge is laid upon some others in this thread which I will expand upon.

No one thinks anyone has cornered the market. No one believes these men preach 'God breathed' doctrine. No one here is teaching they are to go on unquestioned.

What I do take issue with is jonc saying 'but it is heresy to say He ordained their teachings to be accurate...' That is a sad statement and shows contempt for teachers and I have taken note of this attitude. Certainly these men of God have been accurate on much teaching, it is God leading them into truth as promised by application to the church. There are good godly men who have provided sound doctrine, or we would not have 2 Timothy 4 showing both sides, sound doctrine and myths if the former did not exist. There would be no need for 2 Timothy 2:15 because God didn't decree teachings to be accurate.

It is all then to be arbitrary and there is no accuracy to be expected. Or, let's delve off into the emerging church attitude that we can know nothing.

Perhaps jonc you should say when you get ready to teach that God hasn't decreed you to be accurate that it is all haphazard so what you will teach will be most likely erroneous because it isn't in God's plan.

Or maybe you should practice this on here as well, that all your arguments have no accuracy whatsoever, it isn't in God's plan for you to be that, the same charge you lay on others lay on you as well. Therefore there need be no rebuttals from you, or from others, or myself. None are accurate we are just making arbitrary speculations...

And why get angry when ones teaching of man's ability is questioned. Who are you to say that one side is inaccurate when this isn't God's plan? Why attack one side or the other? It is nonsensical to do so.

Frankly I see your argument I just noted as irrational and a cop out. I am certain you deem your own teaching to be accurate and it appears that you hold the teachings of others in disrepute and contempt. In fact you do.

You said, by the way you want 'to own' your own teachings and conclusions (while belittling seeking others on Scripture) and it was in the context of YOU coming to accurate conclusions on your own.

 

What is it exactly that you disagree with jonc and consider 'dumb'? I see this constant reaction of yours as quite childish to be honest. I went off your belief system, off what you teach.

Is that what bothers you?

Or was it alluding to Scripture as evidence to honor these men and that it points to the ability for these gifted men to be accurate by implication?

 

I never made any such claim. Show us all where I made such a claim as you accuse. Here is my post:

 

Here is what the issue is that Iconoclast asked 'where he said that'.

jonc said this ' At the same time, we don't accept their teachings as God breathed. We can say that God gifted these teachers with the ability to teach, but it is a heresy to say that he ordained their teachings to be accurate and unquestionable.'

To that Iconoclast and myself both responded. None of us ever said this nor implied it. It was actually unnecessary to say it. No one here made this alleged 'heretical' statment.

I do however hold that jonc does show contempt for teachers by what he stated. I made this argument in post #213. This is not the only place jonc has criticizized the teachings of others and those who employ their works. Perhaps we should remember that we are talking of God's gifted servants, of brothers in Christ as well.

There is a need to thoroughly consider the charge that God hasn't decreed their teachings to be accurate. To say this then we all must also take such a charge and apply it to ourselves. I am certain jonc that you do not deem your teachings to be inaccurate and that you see God as equipping you to make accurate conclusions. But this is what you typically charge other teachers with and I see it as a cop out.

I made a fair point in #213. Going around making these points dumb isn't cool or appropriate.

 

All the others mentioned. You're the one broad brushing.

By the way I don't appreciate your false accusations on me in post 189. I never made such a statement as you charged. This isn't the first time you've shown disdain for other teachers. You've done it elsewhere. You've done it to Martin Marprelate in a thread. You do this on the web in general.

 

I believe most of these have some good orthodox teachings. Of course there are differing opinions on things. We are the earthen vessel, but for the most part many are accurate on much of what they teach.

No, I mean no such thing. You're getting out of control and assuming. Take a deep breath and end these belittling jabs. I have already offered my Scriptural apology on what I believe about God ordained men. You labelled that post 'dumb'.

That is a foolish charge friend and is untrue, but this is what you resort to, this false assumption. That said I do know some teachings which are in fact heretical and go against orthodox teachings. I have named them here and there on this board. One is the antinomianism in one increasingly popular theological view.

You always assume that the Reformed have some group of anointed ones to whom these only inquire. You charge the Reformed of only getting their teachings from books, not from Scripture, and only from other Reformed. This is not true but maybe you simply enjoy believing it.

At the same time you appoint yourself as getting your teaching direct from the Scriptures. It's a pattern of yours and an agenda. I get it, you hold contempt for the Reformed brethren and you lay this charge upon them often.

 

I wish you were here to tell me to 'shut up'. I apologize that you cannot discern which teachers are true and which are not so according to the call and mandate to do so.

 

Here let me answer this again one more time:

Which ones do you hold in contempt? All that others mention.

And this here as you do hold contempt for other teachers to which MM has had enough of that nonsense of YOURS:

By the way I don't appreciate your false accusations on me in post 189. I never made such a statement as you charged. This isn't the first time you've shown disdain for other teachers. You've done it elsewhere. You've done it to Martin Marprelate in a thread. You do this on the web in general.

Put an end to lying about me and your pretense to not have done all this.

 

I don't grandstand. If a mod lies, you lie, others lie I will call them on it. Several of you overlook one of these who is noted for misrepresenting and yes lying. You all make certain to call me out for calling him on his doing these things but you look past him doing it. Maybe you're just timid, I don't know.

I never made that charge on you but you assumed this for some reason. Put an end to that lie. I told you once I never saw any of your posts because you were on ignore which meant I literally never even saw that you were part of the discussion.

By the way, you rushed in to tell me dhk doesn't believe in 'mans ability' which was the bone of contention there and defended him and accused me of being childish, narcissist, along with other name calling. Nice!

Friend I don't need you to tell me what he does or does not believe, OK? He does well enough on his own.

I offered proof he did teach that in another thread as I quoted what he said. Please know what you are talking about before coming in and name calling. Or perhaps just stop name calling? Sometimes you just don't know everything.

As I said it is when others use them that you are known to belittle them and show contempt for them. It's a known fact.