Begotten or Made and Mary's role in your Salvation

Fully human, fully God.

Mary was ordained by God to care for Jesus from conception until he entered his ministry.

As for all the "isms", I couldn't care less.

There are no "Marian doctrines." Those are mythical creations of a reprobate church.

Mary is remembered, not because she was something extraordinary, but precisely because she was so ordinary. God graciously chose an ordinary young girl and used her for His glory. If God chose such an ordinary person, he may choose any person to accomplish His perfect will.

 

It is not surprising to see modern day Protestants continue the movement their progenitors began to "de-hellenize" the Christian faith. Philosophy, at its basic level, is the understanding of distinctions. Thus, the study of philosophy is useful in order to apply terminology to the study of theology. More specifically, metaphysics is the thread which links philosophy with theology. Thus we find St. Paul, the first Christian philosopher, using the thoughts and words of Aristotle, Seneca, Aratus, Plato, Menander and Socrates to describe and explain the mysteries of the Christian faith.

Mary has everything to do with your salvation. Have you read the first chapter of St. Luke's Gospel? Mary gave flesh to the Second Person of the Trinity, the same flesh He used to redeem you.

 

LOL, I imagine you talking like Charlie Brown's teacher as you call Paul a philosopher rather than an Apostle who wrote as inspired by God.
Note, however, that no Apostle or writer of the Bible ever spoke of a "Marian doctrine." Such talk lowers God and lifts up Mary. My how Mary would rebuke you.
Mary hosted the Savior that was knit in her womb. She never gave flesh to anything. God gave flesh to God. Mary humbly carried God as he grew to birth in Bethlehem.

 

When you saw it on Carm, if you looked at the author of it, the name is Walpole. I was defending the Apostle's Paul's use of philosophy against those who, like you, dismiss the importance of it. St. Paul used Aristotelean philosophy quite extensively throughout the New Testament to explain who the essence of Christ is. He even quotes the likes of Menander and Epimenides and even references Christ Himself quoting Euripides.

I find most Protestants are shocked to learn the New Testament is replete with hellenistic philosophy.

Mary gave a human nature to the Logos. That you would reduce that to a normal and inconsequence occurrence leads me to believe you do not understand the Incarnation and Who the Person of Christ is.

"Who do men say that I am?" The most important question ever asked is unanswerable apart from an understanding of the Incarnation.

She not only found favor with God, she was prophesied throughout the Old Testament. She gave Christ His human nature which He used to redeem you.

Yes, I do. Everything in the rosary is about Mary and Christ. What we believe about Mary is based on who the Person of Christ is.

 

I find most Protestants shocked to learn that St. Paul uses philosophy throughout his epistles. For example, in Phil 2:6-7 he uses Aristotelean metaphysics to explain the essence of Christ and he says that this must be professed by all. (cf. Phil 2:11)

The Jewish and Hellenistic worlds converged at the Incarnation. Perhaps you believe this to simply be another great coincidence?

It seems you do not have even a rudimentary understanding of human biology. Ask your mother and father what it means to conceive.

 

I find it shocking that you think Paul wrote without being inspired by God. Paul speaks as directed by God. If Aristotle said something similar it is because he mimicks what God says, not because Paul is borrowing from secular thinking.

It seems you do not have an even rudimentary understanding of God's Supremacy. Read your Bible and see what it means when God speaks and it happens.

 

That you are shock the New Testament was influenced and written in the context of the Hellenistic world is not surprising. You might try placing the words "Paul and philosophy" or "The New Testament and the Hellenistic world" into a search engine and see what you have been missing. Here are a few examples from St. Paul...

1 Cor 15:33 ---> Quotes Menander's Thais to teach the faithful at Corinth

Titus 1:12 ---> Quotes Epimenides' De oraculis to support his own instruction to his young bishop, Titus

Acts 17:28 ---> Quotes Epimenides' Cretica and Aratus' Phenomena, in which both poets address Zeus and St. Paul in turn quotes and affirms it to the Athenians.

Acts 26:14 ---> When the Apostle describes his conversion experience, he has our Blessed Lord quoting the Greek pagan poet Euripides' play, Bacchae, to him


In addition to St. Paul's use of pagan philosophy, we can also point to the use of the word Logos by the Beloved Apostle. This pagan / Hellenistic philosophical word formed the basis for the Christian understanding of the Trinity.

 

It is written by inspiration of God. I couldn't care less about others.
There is one influence that matters. God wrote through his Prophets and Apostles.
It is disappointing that you have such a low view of God.

 

Too bad you weren’t around back then to correct Jesus and St. Paul.

Have you removed those passages referencing pagan philosophers from your Bible?

 

On the contrary, it is you who would be correcting them and claiming they were inspired by greek philosophers rather than God. Good luck with that.

 

I've already shown you the New Testament uses and references Greek philosophers to support the Christian faith and explain the essence of who Christ is. (see post #11)

Do you think it is just a coincidence the New Testament was written in Greek? The Hebrew and Hellenistic worlds converged with the Incarnation of the Son of God, expressed most beautifully by St. John's description of the Son as the Logos. It is a fact of history that Christianity, from its very beginning, synthesized Hellenism with revelation in light of the coming of Christ. It is not a coincidence that the faith of the Church came into contact and was born in the Hellenistic world.

 

I couldn't care less how God chose to reveal himself. I only care that God chose to reveal himself. He did so by inspiring his Prophets and Apostles to write what he wanted them to write. Everything else is insignificant and merely your distraction in an attempt to lessen the Supremacy of God.

 

...But God did choose to reveal Himself through the prism of the Hellenistic world. That you consider that insignificant is quite telling and explains the content of your posts.

 

Who cares. God chose to reveal himself. That is important. His revelation spans from Moses to John. Writers range from Egypt to Persia to Rome and anywhere in between.
The important point is that God chose to reveal himself. You are pointing at insignificance and glorying in it while ignoring the God of Creation.

 

Mary did nothing special except bear Jesus. Otherwise, she was an ordinary Jewish housewife, who bore at least 6 other children by the usual conception method. She died & went to paradise where her soul is today, not seeing (or caring) what goes on here.

 

To turn Mary into an idol is exceedingly sinful

There is only One Mediator..
1tim2:5
Mary is not Deity.
Mary cannot hear and answer prayer.
While It is good to see RC friends trying to study, it would be better to see them stay only in the scriptures.
That church was corrupted early on, and has had unregenerate leadership starting with most of the ECF, and the list of unsaved Popes.