Begotten or Made and Mary's role in your Salvation

[Particular]

And it would be unbecoming of the God to come in a trash can.

You claim to be saved. Did your parents walk the aisle for you? You would need to claim your salvation on your own confession of faith, not your parents. It is Baptism's grace from God that saves you. So, what if God gave Mary the salvific graces in her conception? Tell us you know God wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't do that.

. Simple logic. A rabbit mates with rabbit and begets little rabbits, right? A donkey mates with donkey and begets little donkeys, right. God mates with the pure and the innocent to produce little pure and innocence, the infant Jesus Christ. You don't even need to be a Catholic to figure that one out.

JoeT

Wow, so many false teachings in one post.
First, I have no idea how you jump the shark to a trash can.
Second, baptismal regeneration is a cultish teaching from a legalistic, works based, synergistic misunderstanding of God's word.
The Bible says "it is by grace you are saved." It does not say, "it is by baptisms grace that you are saved." Your teaching is anathema to God.

Third, based on your mating claim, God had sexual intercourse with a virgin girl (probably 12 or 13 years old) and placed his spiritual sperm into a human egg to create a Thor-like being called Jesus. That, by the way is what Mormons teach, so you're in cult company with your position.
I prefer to believe that God the Son is begotten and entered Mary as fully human and fully God in a miraculous implant of divine humanness. No sperm or egg necessary...just like Adam.

 

[Particular]

No need to break something jumping sharks. You might also recall that you had said that Mary was a sinful woman. How does the perfect sinless come from the sinful? Magic?

JoeT

God does not perform magic. God simply does...and we cannot comprehend what he does. We humans call it "miraculous."

 

[JoeT]

Not if God is begotten and came into Mary's womb without any dna from Mary.

OH! it's all clear now, God puts a Holy worm in the belly of Mary. And she begets what? A big worm?

We know there is no dna from Joseph.

Ok, no argument.

So, either God overpowered Mary's corruption (possible) or God the Son is the second Adam, sinless man and begotten of the Father.

God over powers your sin with Justification at Baptism. God overpowers Mary's possible corruption at conception - can you deny this of God?

If, Mary was sinless, then then Eve was sinless and all women from her are sinless down to Mary. It is doubtful you will follow the lineage backward to Eve if Mary was sinless as you have a Roman Catholic dogma to uphold that has zero biblical support.

Once again, given your own salvific graces, how were your parents instrumental in your salvation.

JoeT

 

[Particular]

OH! it's all clear now, God puts a Holy worm in the belly of Mary. And she begets what? A big worm?


Ok, no argument.



God over powers your sin with Justification at Baptism. God overpowers Mary's possible corruption at conception - can you deny this of God?



Once again, given your own salvific graces, how were your parents instrumental in your salvation.

JoeT

Wow, you just can't face what I have said. Now you make Jesus a worm when I have never said such a thing. Your inability to be honest is obvious to everyone reading this thread.

 

[robycop3]

Where in Sacred Scripture does it say 'Mary was a sinner'? I must've missed that part.

JoeT

Ya didn't look too hard !

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God

Who does **ALL** exclude ???????????????????????

In most ways, Mary was an ordinary Jewish 1st C. housewife.

[/COLOR]

 

[tyndale1946]

OH! it's all clear now, God puts a Holy worm in the belly of Mary. And she begets what? A big worm?

Ok, no argument.

God over powers your sin with Justification at Baptism. God overpowers Mary's possible corruption at conception - can you deny this of God?

Once again, given your own salvific graces, how were your parents instrumental in your salvation.

JoeT

I've been on this board for over eighteen years... This discussion is nothing new... There are 317 plus discussion on this same subject... The Immaculate Conception... You want to see them all type in Immaculate Conception in the search mode... I didn't believe it then and I don't believe it now... So carry on your discussion, I'm leaving... God picked a virgin to carry his seed, and planted his seed in her... And birthed his sinless Son, Jesus The Christ with a body he gave him, to carry out the work he assigned him!... And when he completed that and died for his chosen, God raised him from the dead... Plain and simple... But those are other topics of their own... Brother Glen

Hebrews 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

 

[robycop3]

And according to Hebrews 'without sin'. This would be without original sin as well as without actual sin. Original sin comes to us men as members of the tribe of humanity unless of course that human is born of a type of Eve before the fall. Is Mary a type of New Eve or not?



If you don't think that Mary was born immaculate, protected from ever knowing sin, then your Jesus Christ had original sin. And He was born of corruption. This doesn't seem like the right kind of Jesus Christ to me, what say you?

JoeT

Lemme ask you again: WHO DOES "ALL HAVE SINNED" LEAVE OUT ???????????????????????

 

[robycop3]

I've been on this board for over eighteen years... This discussion is nothing new... There are 317 plus discussion on this same subject... The Immaculate Conception... You want to see them all type in Immaculate Conception in the search mode... I didn't believe it then and I don't believe it now... So carry on your discussion, I'm leaving... God picked a virgin to carry his seed, and planted his seed in her... And birthed his sinless Son, Jesus The Christ with a body he gave him, to carry out the work he assigned him!... And when he completed that and died for his chosen, God raised him from the dead... Plain and simple... But those are other topics of their own... Brother Glen

Hebrews 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

I call it "The Immaculate Deception" !

 

[tyndale1946]

I call it "The Immaculate Deception" !

Or in your own words phony as a Ford Corvette!... Brother Glen

 

[JoeT]

Ya didn't look too hard !

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God

If this is meant literally then we must also apply it to Jesus Christ.

and

St. John says "we know that we are of God", then he says "the whole world is seated in wickedness." [1 John 5:19]
It would seem St. John is conflicted either we are of God or he is "in wickedness".

Then we wonder what work Christ was left with in Judea and Jordan, everyone was baptized.

"Then went out to him Jerusalem and all Judea, and all the country about Jordan: And were baptized by him in the Jordan, confessing their sins." [Matthew 3:5-6]

The Greek pas can mean 'all inclusive' the 'total sum of' or it can mean some of all types.

JoeT

 

[JoeT]

Lemme ask you again: WHO DOES "ALL HAVE SINNED" LEAVE OUT ???????????????????????

What is Luke talking about, has he lost his mind? "And they were both just before God, walking in all the commandments and justifications of the Lord without blame." [Luke 1:6] Doesn't he know Zachary and Elizabeth are included in the set of "all"?

have you ever heard of hyperbole?

JoeT

 

[David Kent]

Where in Sacred Scripture does it say 'Mary was a sinner'? I must've missed that part.

JoeT

Luke 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

Only a sinner needs a saviour.

 

[David Kent]

The Bible says "it is by grace you are saved." It does not say, "it is by baptisms grace that you are saved." Your teaching is anathema to God.

Of course it is. That is because they are followers of the papal antichrist.

 

[JoeT]

Luke 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

Only a sinner needs a saviour.

This is true, however in Mary's case she rejoices that she was protected by a savior.

JoeT

 

[Reformed1689]

Then you must believe that Jesus Christ was a sinner, He was one of us.

JoeT

Except Jesus is not one of us, He is God. God can't fall short of the glory of God.

 

[Reformed1689]

I suppose you never take a car, a bus, a train, or an airplane on your trips far from home; none of these are found in Scripture either.

JoeT

What a stupid comment. What does that have to do with claiming Mary was sinless, part of doctrine...?

 

[Reformed1689]

. Simple logic. A rabbit mates with rabbit and begets little rabbits, right? A donkey mates with donkey and begets little donkeys, right. God mates with the pure and the innocent to produce little pure and innocence, the infant Jesus Christ. You don't even need to be a Catholic to figure that one out.

God didn't "mate" with Mary.

 

[Alcott]

If you don't think that Mary was born immaculate, protected from ever knowing sin, then your Jesus Christ had original sin. And He was born of corruption. This doesn't seem like the right kind of Jesus Christ to me, what say you?

Then were Mary's parents without sin, or did the incorruptible come form corruption? And their parents? and theirs?,,,, Also, how could Mary be a doubter ["How can this be, as I know not a man?"], when the same kind of doubt made Zechariah mute until his son, John, was born, and the Bible says even worse about doubters?

 

[Squire Robertsson]

As the OP is now banned for:
Heresy, denying Jesus was fully God and fully man.
This thread is closed.