When God said, now I know, He did not mean, I always knew.
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The Definition Of “Foreknowledge”
- Thread starter Baptizo
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Yes...I know you quoted from the Bible Hub. I'm only saying that those who hold a different view than you or the Bible Hub can easily dismiss your position (the Bible Hub isn't the common standard all Christians should share when it comes to doctrine).
I agree with you about the definition because I believe the context demands it. But that is far from proof.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Since God says that He does have eyes and hands and ears, then I do.
Jesus does, but the father and Holy Spirit do not
Calvin, apparently, was not a Calvinist. Here is a quote from Institutes Book 2 Chapter 1:
10. Let us have done, then, with those who dare to inscribe the name of God on their vices, because we say that men are born vicious. The divine workmanship, which they ought to look for in the nature of Adam, when still entire and uncorrupted, they absurdly expect to find in their depravity. The blame of our ruin rests with our own carnality, not with God, its only cause being our degeneracy from our original condition. And let no one here glamour that God might have provided better for our safety by preventing Adam's fall. This objection, which, from the daring presumption implied in it, is odious to every pious mind, relates to the mystery of predestination, which will afterwards be considered in its own place (Tertull. de Præscript., Calvin, Lib. de Predest). Meanwhile let us remember that our ruin is attributable to our own depravity, that we may not insinuate a charge against God himself, the Author of nature. It is true that nature has received a mortal wound, but there is a great difference between a wound inflicted from without, and one inherent in our first condition. It is plain that this wound was inflicted by sin; and, therefore, we have no ground of complaint except against ourselves. This is carefully taught in Scripture. For the Preacher says, "Lo, this only have I found, that God made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions," (Eccl. 7:29). Since man, by the kindness of God, was made upright, but by his oven infatuation fell away unto vanity, his destruction is obviously attributable only to himself (Athanas. in Orat. Cont. Idola).
A person must also explain away these verses before attributing the authorship of sin to God.
1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Ecclesiastes 7:29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
1 John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
Romans 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Mark 3:24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
Romans 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Herein is the Calvinist the real offender as he says God made me to be a sinner. He dares not directly reply against God, as the verse says. Instead, he gloats in the idea that God made him to be a sinner. Instead of recognizing the teaching that God will use a sinner to accomplish His own will, they say that God forced him to be a sinner to accomplish His will. (All may not say this, but if you believe that God is the author of sin, first cause, etc., it logically follows that God must make man sin in order to accomplish His will. This is a logically inescapable conclusion.) This is where the longsuffering of God will be evident. God endures the wickedness of man, who He made to be upright (Ecc. 7.29), because God is willing to judge sin. God willed not to make sin but to judge sin. God willed to show His power, not to make sin. God endures the vessels of wrath. The vessels of wrath are the unbelievers. God made man upright, not as vessels of wrath. As Calvin himself says, "this... which, from the daring presumption implied in it, is odious to every pious mind..."
Man is solely responsible for his own condition. The vessels are prepared for destruction not because they were made to be destroyed but because their sinfulness determines that they be destroyed.
When it is fully understood that God is not the author of sin, it is clear that the vessel is the responsible party in determining what he is fitted to.
Romans 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
2 Timothy 2:20-21 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
If it is NOT possible to be a Calvinist and NOT affirm that God is the author of sin, my suggestion is that the Calvinism be dropped so that one may not be found accusing God of sin.
I wouldn't be surprised. We are made in His image.
If God has no knowledge, then Omniscience refers to God knowing all He has chosen to know and not knowing what He has chosen not to know. Therefore you are supporting, inadvertently, the God of scripture. The silly claim if God removes His memory of our sins, that requires that He remove our memory of those same sins, is false. Recall Paul thought of himself as "chief among sinners" (1 Timothy 1:15)
Once again, we have a poster claiming God did not mean, now I know, but really meant I have always known. Nuff said...
Great observation. God says He will remember no more forever the "sins" He has forgiven, yet He chastens those forgiven of their forgiven sins.
How do we reconcile this difficulty. By claiming God is a liar, and He remembers our sins? Nope, that solution cherry-picks scripture, and allows people to believe what they want, and nullify the rest.
What is sin? It has two aspects, one our act (thought or deed) and two the adverse consequence God applies to our actions, which stores up wrath.
So if God remembers no more forever the adverse consequence of our sins, can He say remembers the sin no more forever, while still retaining knowledge of the act needing remediation? I say yes.
No, this is not a contradiction to what I said before. Over the years I have posted on the two aspects of sin, and how the word is used sometimes to refer to both, and sometimes to the act only and sometimes to the consequence only. Do a word study on the topic and let me know what you find.
No, there is no agreement, some believe in order for God to be the God of the Bible, God must know everything imaginable, and others, like myself, in order for God to be the God of the Bible, God can know whatever He chooses to know, and can not know what He has chosen not to know.
Baptizo
Active Member
God is a spirit but He is also free to take on any form He wishes.
Van holds to a form of Open Theism regarding the sovereignty of God
Majority of Calvinists. myself included, would NOT affirm that God is the cause and author of sin , as that would be in violation of His own Holiness and nature
JesusFan and all Calvinists (except Hypers) hold a form of Open Theism regarding the sovereignty of God. He is not the author of sin.
As post 278 observed, if God ordains (predestines) whatsoever comes to pass, then God is the author of sin. However, Calvinists claim God is not the author of sin, so they are Open Theists. The more you study Calvinism, the more problems you encounter.
Calvinists claim none of the lost ever seek after God, but Jesus says many will seek the narrow door and not find it.
Calvinist claim none of the lost every begin entry into the kingdom unless compelled by irresistible grace, yet Jesus says some lost people where actually in the process of entering, but we blocked by false teachers, again demonstrating a tenant of Calvinism is unbiblical.
I could go on, but you get the idea. Foreknowledge refers to knowledge acquired or formulated in the past, being used in the present, such as implementing God's predetermined plan for Christ's death.
Calvinists claim none of the lost ever seek after God, but Jesus says many will seek the narrow door and not find it.
Calvinist claim none of the lost every begin entry into the kingdom unless compelled by irresistible grace, yet Jesus says some lost people where actually in the process of entering, but we blocked by false teachers, again demonstrating a tenant of Calvinism is unbiblical.
I could go on, but you get the idea. Foreknowledge refers to knowledge acquired or formulated in the past, being used in the present, such as implementing God's predetermined plan for Christ's death.
These parts of the physical body, I assume, are parts of a spiritual body. It is a bit out of the realm of normal thinking of the brain but the majority of the activities of man have been done by God. I assume that in a non-physical way, God also has all of these elements. I don’t speak as having complete understanding.
Exodus 33:23
And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.
There are several times when God reveals Himself as Jesus Christ the Man before His time. In none of these instances are the people told to close their eyes, or that they will be covered so as not to see God.
I read this interaction in Ex. 33 as being God the Father and not an appearance of Jesus Christ.
I will one day really know and not wonder.
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