The Definition Of “Foreknowledge”

[Silverhair]

God does not forget the sins that we have committed, He has chosen not to hold them against those that have trust in His son.

Just as we on this board will remember slights that have been made against us but we have chosen not to hold those against the one's that have made them.

God is not forgetful, just selective in remembering. Just as we are. See Hebrews 8:8-11

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

You believe that God had a relationship with him before he was born. Why is it so hard to believe that God, his Creator, knew about him before he was born?

So, now, instead of God "took notice" of Jeremiah, you're changing your idea of what "knew" means, for it to mean, "knew", in another way.

You doubt me because I doubt Calvinism.

I doubted you because you were dead wrong.

God "knew" because of His Relationship of Eternal Election with Jeremiah and not because God Observed something and "took notice".

So you argue with me points that you must already believe (or apparently have skipped over) that are a necessity for your own beliefs.

You expect me to compromise my autonomy and deceive myself by accepting your lies, so you can obtain control to manipulate whatever.

Whatever, guess again.

You can’t tell me that you believe that God didn’t have knowledge of who Jeremiah was but had a relationship with him.

So, there is something wrong with me, because you now agree that God had "knowledge", rather than your invalid case for God seeing him?

You argue with yourself.

You argue yourself. You argue lies. You argue fraud. You argue Quackery. You argue bologna.

So, the Armenian Hermeneutic of Illiteracy includes a co-morbidity that lying is O.K., to avoid Honoring, God unless you blame the other party.

Noted.

 

[Silverhair]

You expect me to compromise my autonomy and deceive myself by accepting your lies, so you can obtain control to manipulate whatever.

Correct me if I am wrong but are you not of the Calvinist/Reformed religion?

If you are then what autonomy are you being asked to compromise?

Do you not hold to divine determinism? What about the TULIP/DoG are they not part of the religion you hold?

I am curious, if you are of the C/R view how can you compromise something that you do not have?

 

[Van]

That needs to be corrected. My response was to your claim that God can cease to have knowledge about past sins while we can continue to possess that same knowledge. That doesn’t work if God knows our hearts and our minds, now does it?

Again, you are saying God cannot disremember when scripture says He can. Your god is of you own invention.

 

[Silverhair]

Again, you are saying God cannot disremember when scripture says He can. Your god is of you own invention.

Van your logic is flawed. God chooses not to remember as in not act upon the knowledge that He has.

Are you suggesting that God is forgetful?

 

[Van]

Van your logic is flawed. God chooses not to remember as in not act upon the knowledge that He has.

Are you suggesting that God is forgetful?

Sorry to see this post. Scripture says God will not remember our sins forever. That means He has the capacity to remove one or more of His memories, just as He has the capacity to not foresee future events, but to allow them to happen by chance.

As Baptists, scripture is our final authority, not the clever inventions of people to nullify what scripture plainly says.

 

[Silverhair]

Sorry to see this post. Scripture says God will not remember our sins forever. That means He has the capacity to remove one or more of His memories, just as He has the capacity to not foresee future events, but to allow them to happen by chance.

As Baptists, scripture is our final authority, not the clever inventions of people to nullify what scripture plainly says.

Van whether you know it or not you are denying the omniscience of God.

By your view God could forget that deeds of Hitler and He could be in heaven. Or He could forget that you had trusted in Him and you would be in Hell.

Plus if God can choose not to foresee something then how can we trust what we read in Revelation. Perhaps we will have a nuclear war and all of humanity will be wiped out before Christ comes back to called us home.

You can't say that is ridiculous as you just said He forgets and things happen by chance.

 

[Baptizo]

Again, you are saying God cannot disremember when scripture says He can. Your god is of you own invention.

Scripture also says that God knows our thoughts. It's impossible for us to remember something that God doesn't know about.

Psalm 139:1-2 (NASB) - Lord, You have searched me and known me. You know when I sit down and when I get up;
You understand my thought from far away.

Good luck maneuvering your way out of that one.

 

[Van]

Scripture also says that God knows our thoughts. It's impossible for us to remember something that God doesn't know about.

Psalm 139:1-2 (NASB) - Lord, You have searched me and known me. You know when I sit down and when I get up;
You understand my thought from far away.

Good luck maneuvering your way out of that one.

I have no need to Maneuver out of you claim. God says He will remember no more forever. You say that is not true.

God can choose not to "search a person's mind" such as when He did not know the extent of Abraham's faith until Abraham raise his knife.

 

[Van]

Van whether you know it or not you are denying the omniscience of God.

By your view God could forget that deeds of Hitler and He could be in heaven. Or He could forget that you had trusted in Him and you would be in Hell.

Plus if God can choose not to foresee something then how can we trust what we read in Revelation. Perhaps we will have a nuclear war and all of humanity will be wiped out before Christ comes back to called us home.

You can't say that is ridiculous as you just said He forgets and things happen by chance.

Yes, God could choose not to remember the sins of Hitler.

No verse says God would forget anything. To choose not to know or to deliberately remove from memory is not "forgetting."

I am not denying Omniscience, I am defining it according to scripture, and not according to the unstudied conjecture of people.

As I have posted before, no plan of God can be thwarted by people. You seem to claim that verse does not mean what it says too.

And again, I did not say God forgets, but scripture does say things happen by chance. Which means they were not predestined, which means according to my way of thinking, they were not known as a future event by God because then it would be predestined.

 

[JesusFan]

Here JesusFan claims he believes God is the author of sin. False claim in my opinion.

No, one can be a Calvinist and NOT affirm God is author of sin

 

[JesusFan]

Does "all" refer to everything imaginable, or only to all of whatever is contextually in view? All refers to the contextual content, not everything imaginable. For example, Jesus said if I am high and lifted up, I will draw all to Myself. John 12:32 Is Jesus talking about drawing all the moons of Saturn to Himself? Of course not. He is talking about humans, and not all humans, but those aware He died on a cross for them.

As the saying goes, Context is king.

Does God ever learn anything new to Him, that He experiences something never knew or thought of before?

 

[Baptizo]

Yes, God could choose not to remember the sins of Hitler.

Isaiah 41:22 - Let them bring them forth, and shew us what shall happen: let them shew the former things, what they be, that we may consider them, and know the latter end of them; or declare us things for to come.

God speaking says that He knows things that happened in the past and to consider them, meaning they had a purpose. If God chose to forget the sins of Hitler, I guess all of a sudden He would be stumped as to why the holocaust happened.

 

[JesusFan]

Again, you are saying God cannot disremember when scripture says He can. Your god is of you own invention.

Its staing NOT that God literally forgot your sins, but that now since found in Christ, he chooses to see us as now in the beloved and not holding those sin still knows about against us

 

[JesusFan]

Isaiah 41:22 - Let them bring them forth, and shew us what shall happen: let them shew the former things, what they be, that we may consider them, and know the latter end of them; or declare us things for to come.

God speaking says that He knows things that happened in the past and to consider them, meaning they had a purpose. If God chose to forget the sins of Hitler, I guess all of a sudden He would be stumped as to who was behind the holocaust.

With the viewpoint of Van, how would we have absolute confidence that prophecy will be fulfilled as written, as what if God failed to see something in the end, and He might get tricked up and actually lose?

 

[Silverhair]

Yes, God could choose not to remember the sins of Hitler.

No verse says God would forget anything. To choose not to know or to deliberately remove from memory is not "forgetting."

I am not denying Omniscience, I am defining it according to scripture, and not according to the unstudied conjecture of people.

As I have posted before, no plan of God can be thwarted by people. You seem to claim that verse does not mean what it says too.

And again, I did not say God forgets, but scripture does say things happen by chance. Which means they were not predestined, which means according to my way of thinking, they were not known as a future event by God because then it would be predestined.

It would seem that you have some logical flaws but you seem to be ok with that.

Be that it may I think you do have a strange way of understanding God's omniscience but so be it.

 

[Ben1445]

Hi Ben 1445,
Yes, a segment of believers make the claim that God knowing what will happen does not require that to actually happen, therefore not fixing the future event. Personally, I cannot follow that logic.

When Abraham lifted up his knife to kill his son, God said stop, now I know.... (Gen. 22:12) Thus God had chosen not to know that future event. Jesus did not know the time of His Second Coming, thus another example of God choosing not to know a future event. If my view is correct, knowing the future, fixes that future, then God saying things happen by chance indicates God had chosen not to know those parts of the future too.

But the key point of the post you replied to, is that when God declares something will happen in the future, He is not displaying His supposed knowledge of the future, He is simply saying He will cause that future event or circumstance to occur. Totally different from looking into the old crystal ball.

Jesus didn't tell Phillip "I put you there." as would be what is implied by that logic whether He said it or not. I find that claim is is the only one that can fit everything that God describes Himself as into one Being. But I expect that when I know who God is perfectly, and of course I don't mean a relationship, I will have no more questions or mistaken ideas.

 

[Ben1445]

So, now, instead of God "took notice" of Jeremiah, you're changing your idea of what "knew" means, for it to mean, "knew", in another way.

"Took notice" is the phrase you locked onto. It is not an exclusive application of informational knowledge. Surely you understand the concept of multiple uses of the same word?? Yes, I know you are. I am just not willing to go as far as you do.

I doubted you because you were dead wrong.

Well, since you fail to give me an uncontested use of the word "know" in which it is clear that knowledge is not meant, your opinion of me being dead wrong, doesn't affect my stance on Scripture.

God "knew" because of His Relationship of Eternal Election with Jeremiah and not because God Observed something and "took notice".

You have said that without any kind of real evidence except fluffy Calvinist opinion. I still can read the same passages you do with knowledge of the word know as being that pertaining to knowledge. It doesn't change any biblical doctrines which is likely one reason I have not fallen into Calvin-Augustinian gnostic fatalism.

You expect me to compromise my autonomy and deceive myself by accepting your lies, so you can obtain control to manipulate whatever.

Whatever, guess again.

??? What are you talking about?

So, there is something wrong with me, because you now agree that God had "knowledge", rather than your invalid case for God seeing him?

Wait, you agree with me?

You argue yourself. You argue lies. You argue fraud. You argue Quackery. You argue bologna.

So, the Armenian Hermeneutic of Illiteracy includes a co-morbidity that lying is O.K., to avoid Honoring, God unless you blame the other party.

Noted.

I don't personally, outside of this forum know anybody who is an Arminian. It is clearly not Scriptural.
The fact that you can only push the people you disagree with into this category makes your discussion of no more value than name calling. You clearly don't know what I believe. If you were interested, you might actually go back and read objectively. I doubt you will do that. If you were a bit more literate yourself, you might not think there are only two sides to the issue. You would understand that the world is full of different views on this topic that don't fit into either of your categories.
And when God gives the context as in John 6, I am not so bold as to tell Him He didn't mean what He said because of the doctrines of grace, or tulip or Calvin, or any other reason. to interpret Scripture through the doctrine of Calvinism is backwards. When you find yourself deciding what Scripture means based on what you believe, you become a pagan with your own God. When you allow God to tell you what He means and Who He is, you allow what Scripture says to change what you believe. At that point titles of doctrines and covenants and creeds are only profitable for discussion and reference. Don't follow creeds. Follow God.

 

[Ben1445]

Jesus didn't tell Phillip "I put you there." as would be what is implied by that logic whether He said it or not. I find that claim is is the only one that can fit everything that God describes Himself as into one Being. But I expect that when I know who God is perfectly, and of course I don't mean a relationship, I will have no more questions or mistaken ideas.

That claim being the "claim" you referred to that God can know without taking any action or having any determination.

 

[Van]

No, one can be a Calvinist and NOT affirm God is author of sin

Incredible inability to grasp reality.