Thats not quite true, they were saved on credit,
No, actually they were justified. And this—in an Old Covenant context. Romans 4 is given to show a precedent for justifying individuals based on faith, yet most look at this chapter and say Abraham had received what the New Testament over and over say they had not.
So, back up. Read Romans 3 and notice carefully what it states:
Romans 3:20-26
King James Version
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Now, unless we want to say that it is only under the Covenant of Law there are none good, in order to make Abraham worthy of something that wasn't suddenly available when the Covenant of Law went into effect, then we can say that all prior Ages come under the condemnation found in this chapter.
Note v.21 makes it clear it is ... now. Now the righteousness of God is made manifest. In Romans 3, Abraham is declared righteous based on what he does (and we'll get to that).
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Next, consider that the "faith of Jesus Christ" was not available prior to, well—the coming of Jesus Christ. And before we say, "But, prophecy of Messiah was known in the Hebrew Scriptures," ask yourself this question: are Jews today, who reject Jesus Christ—"saved" by their faith in a coming Messiah?
If you say yes, then I'm going to need Scripture that teaches two means of salvation. Because that's what it would be; salvation through faith in the finished work of Christ, and salvation simply by believing He will one day come.
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Again, Mankind is still falling short. Wouldn't be true if people had already had Atonement applied to their behalf. That is why Hebrews 10:14 is so important, because it makes it clear that it is Christ's vicarious death in the stead of the sinner that ends the need for sacrifice for sin.
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
When was the redemption that is in Christ Jesus available to men? It was not in the previous Ages. He actually had to die, else—He need not have come.
RIght?
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Note very carefully that His death (blood, a euphemism for death) is necessary in order to have faith in His death.
Next, note that it is His righteousness that is declared. Not Abraham's. His righteousness declared for the remission (forgiveness) of sins that are past.
Now who's sin needed His death in order for His righteousness to forgive sins of the past? If we do not understand that even Abraham died in faith (despite the fact that it is mentioned specifically in Hebrews 11:13 and Hebrews 11:39-40) still in need of being made complete in regards to his sins, then we are prone to embrace fables about the Atonement being applied—before Christ even died on the Cross.
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Paul reiterates, "at this time." And, those who believe in Jesus Christ (specifically) are justified.
There is a difference between Temporal Justification and Eternal Justification. Temporal refers to those deeds by which we as individuals (even we believers in Christ) are either justified or not. It is not the same as being eternally redeemed through faith in Christ.
Now let's look briefly why Abraham was justified:
Romans 4
King James Version
1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Paul makes it clear he is speaking in a temporal context, not eternal, as he just finished speaking in regards to justification through faith in Christ and His death. In other words, what is described refers to Abraham's earthly life.
So let's look at why Abraham was justified:
3 For what saith the scripture?
Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
It doesn't say Abraham believed in Christ. And before we say, "But Abraham heard and believed the Gospel," remember, the Gospel Abraham heard was not that Christ would die in his stead for his sins to reestablish relationship between him and God, it was ...
Galatians 3:8
King James Version
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying,
In thee shall all nations be blessed.
You can look back at Genesis and see Paul is not incorrect in quoting the Gospel Abraham heard. Just as Genesis 3:15 is the Gospel, so too was this declaration. It foretold Christ. But it not the Gospel of Christ revealed. It is not the revelation of the Gospel of Christ whereby men could be eternally redeemed.
Romans 3
16 Therefore
it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
17 (
As it is written,
I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom
he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
18
Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
19 And
being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:
20
He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21
And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22
And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
This is what Abraham believed in order to be justified. So I ask you, can men be eternally redeemed through belief in all various manners of faith, or do they specifically need to believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ? Because when we make Temporal Justification equal to Eternal Justification, we nullify the very Gospel of Christ.
based upon what Christ would come and do at the Cross. Was David and Abraham Righteous saved b4 Christ died ? Rom 4:1-5
Great. Just present the Scripture. This is a view that has no biblical basis, because it cannot be found in Scripture, and prooftexts purporting this flawed view cannot overturn clear statements in Scripture that make it clear that only through faith in the risen Messiah (which implies faith in His vicarious death) that men and women can be eternally redeemed.
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Gen 15:6
6 And he[Abraham] believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
Now was Abraham saved in Gen 15
Nope. He was justified.
Hebrews 11:13
King James Version
13 These all died in faith,
not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Hebrews 11:39-40
King James Version
39 And these
all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
Hebrews 10:15-18
King James Version
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Just read Hebrews 7-10 a few times. It will become clear. It is a false view that places people under the New Covenant before Christ inaugurated the New Covenant with His blood/death. It is a false view that Atonement was applied to Old Testament Saints prior to Atonement being available.
God bless.
