A Perfect Righteousness

[Van]

I did what you did, and with better translations.

Yet another post of derailment, addressing petty bickering rather than the topic. This is what false teachers do,

You claim the Greek word order governs phraseology. But no mention of the highly respected translations, NKJV and NASB clearly indicated that those termed "the called" referred to their being set apart in Christ.

1) The word order in Greek does not govern the word order in English.

2) Jude 1:1 clearly teaches "the called" are those God has set apart in Christ.

3) "The called" undergo the washing of regeneration once transferred into Christ, and arise a new creation, made perfect and righteous by the blood of the Lamb.

 

[Brightfame52]

Yet another post of derailment, addressing petty bickering rather than the topic. This is what false teachers do,

You claim the Greek word order governs phraseology. But no mention of the highly respected translations, NKJV and NASB clearly indicated that those termed "the called" referred to their being set apart in Christ.

1) The word order in Greek does not govern the word order in English.

2) Jude 1:1 clearly teaches "the called" are those God has set apart in Christ.

3) "The called" undergo the washing of regeneration once transferred into Christ, and arise a new creation, made perfect and righteous by the blood of the Lamb.

We have the pot calling the kettle black lol

 

[Van]

We have the pot calling the kettle black lol

Yet another post of derailment, addressing petty bickering rather than the topic. This is what false teachers do,

You claim the Greek word order governs phraseology. But no mention of the highly respected translations, NKJV and NASB clearly indicated that those termed "the called" referred to their being set apart in Christ.


1) The word order in Greek does not govern the word order in English.

2) Jude 1:1 clearly teaches "the called" are those God has set apart in Christ.

3) "The called" undergo the washing of regeneration once transferred into Christ, and arise a new creation, made perfect and righteous by the blood of the Lamb.

 

[Brightfame52]

Yet another post of derailment, addressing petty bickering rather than the topic. This is what false teachers do,

You claim the Greek word order governs phraseology. But no mention of the highly respected translations, NKJV and NASB clearly indicated that those termed "the called" referred to their being set apart in Christ.


1) The word order in Greek does not govern the word order in English.

2) Jude 1:1 clearly teaches "the called" are those God has set apart in Christ.

3) "The called" undergo the washing of regeneration once transferred into Christ, and arise a new creation, made perfect and righteous by the blood of the Lamb.

I used the KJV and The Greek Text

 

[Van]

I used the KJV and The Greek Text

Neither supports your claim. The NKJV uses your "Greek Text" and supports the true doctrine, the called have been set apart in Christ.

 

[KenH]

Neither supports your claim. The NKJV uses your "Greek Text" and supports the true doctrine, the called have been set apart in Christ.

As has been previously shown, the NKJV is the same as the KJV:

Revelation 13:8
KJV - "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."
NKJV - "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

 

[Brightfame52]

Neither supports your claim. The NKJV uses your "Greek Text" and supports the true doctrine, the called have been set apart in Christ.

They do. I showed you the KJV which uses a greek text and a greek text

 

[Van]

As has been previously shown, the NKJV is the same as the KJV:

Revelation 13:8
KJV - "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."
NKJV - "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

Does anyone believe this poster really has no idea or grasp of the topic? Jude 1:1, not Revelation 13:8. Neither do I.

 

[Van]

They do. I showed you the KJV which uses a greek text and a greek text

The Greek text supports the translation that names were not written since the foundation of the world in the Lamb's book of life who was slain. Note how often false teachers rely on mistranslation to push false doctrine!!

 

[Brightfame52]

The Greek text supports the translation that names were not written since the foundation of the world in the Lamb's book of life who was slain. Note how often false teachers rely on mistranslation to push false doctrine!!

I showed you the KJV which uses a greek text and a greek text

 

[Darrell C]

They were given before the incarnation. Existing entities??? Where do you see that in scripture?

There's actually quite a bit of Scripture that makes it clear that, while the Lord certainly knew who would be saved, they were not saved (redeemed, in an eternal context) until Christ redeemed them from their sins.

You are suggesting a salvation that did not exist prior to the Cross.

Here are a couple verses to consider:


Hebrews 9:12-15
King James Version

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.


If Christ entered into "the Holy Place" through His blood, which took place after the Incarnation, what were these people you speak of saved by? And, are you suggesting that people under the Law could be saved by the Covenant of Law? Because, right here, it is making the point that those under the Law were still in need of redemption when Christ offered Himself up for them.

Notice:


Hebrews 9:24
King James Version

24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:


It is significant that Christ entered into Heaven, right?

Also notice:


Hebrews 10:16-20
King James Version

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;


The Old Testament Holy of holies was forbidden to men apart from the High Priest and stood as a figure for the reality of entrance to Heaven. Here, we see that entrance into the True Holiest of All is accomplished by one thing: Christ's death in the stead of the sinner.

We can set an approximate date in history when Heaven became available to those who were not just saved by grace through faith but were also eternally redeemed through the death of Christ. That is, His dying in the stead of the sinner.

So, yes, they did sit in Hades and await their redemption. No man entered into the Holiest of All until their entrance was made possible by Christ.

God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Revelation 13:8
KJV - "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."
NKJV - "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."
NIV - "the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world."
LSV - "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."
YLT1898 - "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."
WBMS - "the lamb, that was slain from the beginning of the world."

Are you arguing that Christ was slain from the foundation of the world in a literal sense?

 

[Brightfame52]

@Darrell C

There's actually quite a bit of Scripture that makes it clear that, while the Lord certainly knew who would be saved, they were not saved until Christ redeemed them from their sins.

Thats not quite true, they were saved on credit, based upon what Christ would come and do at the Cross. Was David and Abraham Righteous saved b4 Christ died ? Rom 4:1-5

What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Gen 15:6

6 And he[Abraham] believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

Now was Abraham saved in Gen 15