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No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
Actually Im highlighting a truth within the context ! Pay close attention to what Jesus says about who it is that hears the words of God, spiritually speaking Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

also what does Jesus say to these men as to why they they dont hear the words of God ?
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And you continue to miss what Christ was saying BF. The bible is not a book of one liners as you treat it.

Joh 8:43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say.
Joh 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire.

Joh 8:47 He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."

You do need to pay attention to what Jesus is saying BF.
You ignore context because the context proves your view wrong.
 
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Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
BF if you actually bothered to read verses in the context in which they are found then you would not make the same mistakes in your thinking.

JJoh 5:39 You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, oh 5:40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

Joh 8:43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say.
Joh 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire.

In both cases the person could have come to Christ but chose not to do so.
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Man doesnt have a freewill to come to Jesus Jn 6:44 how many times are you going to ignore that fact ?
 
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Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
And you continue to miss what Christ was saying BF. The bible is not a book of one liners as you treat it.

Joh 8:43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say.
Joh 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire.

Joh 8:47 He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."

You do need to pay attention to what Jesus is saying BF.
You ignore context because the context proves your view wrong.
Click to expand...
You missing what's being highlighted in the context of scripture. You have to be of God to hear His words Jn 8:47 You have to be saved
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
Man doesnt have a freewill to come to Jesus Jn 6:44 how many times are you going to ignore that fact ?
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Joh 6:45 "It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.

If man does not have the free will with which to come to God then he does not have the free will with which to reject Him either. So you have just made God worse than Satan.

Satan has to temp people into sin and hell but God just decrees that they sin and condemns them to doing what He has decreed that they do. You have a very warped view of God.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
You missing what's being highlighted in the context of scripture. You have to be of God to hear His words Jn 8:47 You have to be saved
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If you have to be saved before you can understand the gospel message then no one would be saved as no one would understand the gospel message.

The fact the bible proves you wrong does not seem to matter to you.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes,...

Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

Notice they hear and respond to the gospel BEFORE they are saved.
 
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Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
Joh 6:45 "It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.

If man does not have the free will with which to come to God then he does not have the free will with which to reject Him either. So you have just made God worse than Satan.

Satan has to temp people into sin and hell but God just decrees that they sin and condemns them to doing what He has decreed that they do. You have a very warped view of God.
Click to expand...
Man doesnt have a freewill to come to Jesus Jn 6:44 how many times are you going to ignore that fact ? Jn 6:44 and Jn 6:45 is about the ones the Father draws, they are passive. Freewill is active, when someone is drawn its caused by the power of the one drawing.
 
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
If you have to be saved before you can understand the gospel message then no one would be saved as no one would understand the gospel message.

The fact the bible proves you wrong does not seem to matter to you.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes,...

Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

Notice they hear and respond to the gospel BEFORE they are saved.
Click to expand...
Of course they hear and believe Eph 1:13 because they were of God Jn 6:47 thats the only way for them to hear and believe.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
Man doesnt have a freewill to come to Jesus Jn 6:44 how many times are you going to ignore that fact ? Jn 6:44 and Jn 6:45 is about the ones the Father draws, they are passive. Freewill is active, when someone is drawn its caused by the power of the one drawing.
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God uses various means to draw people to Him but the people still have to freely respond to that drawing.

Man is judged by God for how they freely respond BF.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
Man doesn't have a free will John 6:44, 65
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God would disagree with your silly view.

Rom 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Act 16:30 He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
Act 16:31 They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household."
 
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Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
God would disagree with your silly view.

Rom 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Act 16:30 He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
Act 16:31 They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household."
Click to expand...
Man cannot come to Christ with his own free will John 6:44, 65
 
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Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
By nature all men spiritually speaking are in this world without God, Christ and no hope Eph 2:12

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

These lost people had a will but it was lost to the True God and Christ, in that regard they were without hope. Now they could and would worship false gods Acts 17 since by nature that's all we can do, that is to worship false gods.
 
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Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
All Gods Elect and the non elect are by nature spiritually dead, dead in sin Eph 2:1,5; Col 2:13. This means that all men naturally are living without spiritual life and alienated from God. Eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

Col 1:21

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled.

As such we are naturally in spiritual death Rom 8:6

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

All by nature are carnal minded, that cant be helped, even if we are very pious and religious and moral.

In this state we have no affections or motion towards God Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Thats why Jesus says of man naturally Jn 6:44,65

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. 4
 
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Ben1445

Active Member
Revelation 22:17
And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

John 4:14
But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

John 6:37
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Ephesians 1:22
And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

Sometimes I wonder how proud of themselves that the reformed will be as they stand in heaven and say “Look how well I deterred people from thinking that they can come to You.”

Funny how important it seems for some to say that people can’t come to Christ when the command of Christ is to go tell everyone to come to Him.
A very strange perversion of God’s instructions indeed!
 
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