Study 2 Thessalonians 2:13

Van · Wednesday at 2:21 PM

Once again we see yet another Calvinist effort to rewrite scripture to alter it in accordance with the fiction of Calvinism.

Who said 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says we are chosen "because of our faith?" That would make salvation dependent upon the person that wills to be saved, and therefore contrary to Romans 9:16. But that is the viewpoint, the strawman argument, hoisted in deceit.

The verse is a compound sentence, with subjects, verbs, direct and indirect objects. There is no separate thought.

We should always give thanks to God for you as beloved by the Lord.
Subject, =We; Verb = should give thanks, direct object = God; indirect object for you the beloved.
We should give thanks to God for you as our siblings in Christ!
Why?
Because God has chosen you. Subject = God; Verb = has chosen; direct object = you.
The remaining phrases are indirect objects describing aspects of the action upon the recipient.

When was the action of choosing performed? From the beginning of the New Covenant
What was the purpose of the action? For salvation
What were the instrumental factors? Election by means of transferring the person from the realm of darkness into Christ. Basis of the choice was God crediting the faith of the individual as righteousness.

Thus we were NOT saved because of our faith, our faith only allowed God to credit it or not. Our faith did not deserve salvation or merit salvation, the accreditation was a act of mercy and grace. Salvation does NOT depend upon the person who wills, but upon God who has mercy.

canadyjd · Wednesday at 5:25 PM

Van said:
…..

Who said 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says we are chosen "because of our faith?"

@Van said it in post #123 of his thread “when were we chosen”

Peace to you

Van · Wednesday at 6:27 PM

canadyjd said:
@Van said it in post #123 of his thread “when were we chosen”

Peace to you

Yet another post asking a question rather than addressing the topic. Was an answer to the question, who said "we are chosen because of our faith" provided? Nope.

Van · Thursday at 9:50 AM

Interpretive Translation of 2 Thessalonians 2:13.
We should give thanks to God for you as our siblings in Christ! Because God has chosen you,from the beginning of the New Covenant, for salvation, by the means of setting you apart in Christ based on crediting your faith as righteousness.

It was for this election that God invited you by means of our gospel that you might obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. That glory is the splendour of the Righteousness of Christ! Many are invited but few are chosen.

canadyjd · Thursday at 8:11 PM

Van said:
Yet another post asking a question rather than addressing the topic. Was an answer to the question, who said "we are chosen because of our faith" provided? Nope.

You asked, “who said we are chosen because of our faith”, and laid out why that’s not true.

I answered your question directly… you said it in your previous thread.

It is impossible to dialog with you. You don’t even know what you’ve said before and claim personal attacks when your own words are repeated back to you

All done @Van.

Peace to you

Van · Friday at 6:53 AM

canadyjd said:
You asked, “who said we are chosen because of our faith”, and laid out why that’s not true.

I answered your question directly… you said it in your previous thread.

It is impossible to dialog with you. You don’t even know what you’ve said before and claim personal attacks when your own words are repeated back to you

All done @Van.

Peace to you

I can only hope your are willing to stop with all your false claims and diversionary tactics to derail discussion of scripture.

Interpretive Translation of 2 Thessalonians 2:13.
We should give thanks to God for you as our siblings in Christ! Because God has chosen you,from the beginning of the New Covenant, for salvation, by the means of setting you apart in Christ based on crediting your faith as righteousness.

It was for this election that God invited you by means of our gospel that you might obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. That glory is the splendour of the Righteousness of Christ! Many are invited but few are chosen.

canadyjd · Saturday at 7:17 PM

Van said:
…..

Interpretive Translation of 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

Or…. I will now rewrite the passage to make it fit my secular philosophy…

Van said:
We should give thanks to God for you as our siblings in Christ! Because God has chosen you,from the beginning of the New Covenant, for salvation, by the means of setting you apart in Christ based on crediting your faith as righteousness.

It was for this election that God invited you by means of our gospel that you might obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. That glory is the splendour of the Righteousness of Christ! Many are invited but few are chosen.

Ta Da!!!! All you have to do is ignore the meaning of words, be willing to rewrite all passages to fit your beliefs and then personally attack anyone who dares to point out your error…

Vanology in action

Peace to you

Van · Sunday at 10:30 AM

canadyjd said:
Or…. I will now rewrite the passage to make it fit my secular philosophy…

Ta Da!!!! All you have to do is ignore the meaning of words, be willing to rewrite all passages to fit your beliefs and then personally attack anyone who dares to point out your error…

Vanology in action

Peace to you

Folks, who wrote "I will now rewrite the passage to make it fit my secular philosophy?"

Canadyjd did.

Calvinism in action, misrepresent others and rewrite scripture.

We should give thanks to God for you as our siblings in Christ! Because God has chosen you,from the beginning of the New Covenant, for salvation, by the means of setting you apart in Christ based on crediting your faith as righteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 Interpretive translation.

1) Does the verse refer to only biological brothers of Paul, or to all his siblings, male or female in Christ?

2) Does the verse say God has chosen the individuals of his audience for salvation?

3) When did God begin to choose individuals based on their belief in the name of Jesus? Obviously from the beginning of the New Covenant in His Blood. Were the OT saints even aware God raised Jesus from the dead?

4) Does God transfer those of His choosing into Christ? See Colossians 1:13 if in doubt.

5) Does God credit the faith of those who believe God raised Jesus from the dead? See Romans 4:22-24

All the false teachers advocating Calvinism have is vague innuendo and clear-cut misrepresentation. Using sound hermeneutics to study scripture and reach what we believe in the actual meaning is not "secular philosophy."

"Bible study hermeneutics is the science and art of interpreting the Bible to understand the original meaning of the authors, bridge the gap to modern readers, and apply timeless truths, focusing on context, language, and genre to avoid misinterpretation and derive accurate, relevant lessons for today." [from the internet]

canadyjd · Sunday at 1:09 PM

Van said:
Folks, who wrote "I will now rewrite the passage to make it fit my secular philosophy?"

Canadyjd did.

Folks, who actually rewrote the passage to fit his secular philosophy?

Van did.

Folks, who cannot stand it when his error is pointed out with abundance of scripture in context?

That is Van as well.

Hey @Van, don’t mention me in your posts and I’ll try to ignore your ignorant gibberish concerning scripture.

Peace to you

Van · 2025-12-15T07:29:56-0600

canadyjd said:
Folks, who actually rewrote the passage to fit his secular philosophy?

Van did.

Folks, who cannot stand it when his error is pointed out with abundance of scripture in context?

That is Van as well.

Hey @Van, don’t mention me in your posts and I’ll try to ignore your ignorant gibberish concerning scripture.

Peace to you

The claim my interpretation constitutes an effort to alter God's message is a falsehood, deliberately posted to avoid discussion of the verse. This is all these false teachers have, because they apparently do not even know how to study scripture.

We should give thanks to God for you as our siblings in Christ! Because God has chosen you,from the beginning of the New Covenant, for salvation, by the means of setting you apart in Christ based on crediting your faith as righteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 Interpretive translation.

1) Does the verse refer to only biological brothers of Paul, or to all his siblings, male or female in Christ?

2) Does the verse say God has chosen the individuals of his audience for salvation?

3) When did God begin to choose individuals based on their belief in the name of Jesus? Obviously from the beginning of the New Covenant in His Blood. Were the OT saints even aware God raised Jesus from the dead?

4) Does God transfer those of His choosing into Christ? See Colossians 1:13 if in doubt.

5) Does God credit the faith of those who believe God raised Jesus from the dead? See Romans 4:22-24

All the false teachers advocating Calvinism have is vague innuendo and clear-cut misrepresentation. Using sound hermeneutics to study scripture and reach what we believe in the actual meaning is not "secular philosophy."

"Bible study hermeneutics is the science and art of interpreting the Bible to understand the original meaning of the authors, bridge the gap to modern readers, and apply timeless truths, focusing on context, language, and genre to avoid misinterpretation and derive accurate, relevant lessons for today." [from the internet]

canadyjd · 2025-12-15T13:20:08-0600

All efforts to validate the changing of the meaning of the words in scripture as an “interpretive translation” is the foundation of false teachers.

You do not need to change the meanings of the words in 2 Thessalonians 2:13 to understand what Paul is teaching.

He very clearly states we are chosen from the beginning, by God, for salvation. That is a separate and complete thought in context. When speaking in relation to God, in Jewish thought, the phrase “from the beginning” refers to Genesis.

There are places where Paul refers to the beginning of his ministry among certain Christians. These instances are also very clear in context.

Paul then elaborates on “how” that salvation occurs (not how the choosing occurs). We are sanctified (set apart) by God Holy Spirit which leads to faith in the truth.

This refers to the necessity of, first, the intervention of God Holy Spirit in the person’s life and, second, the preaching of the gospel (truth) concerning Jesus.

All efforts to change the truth of scripture are doomed to fail as Jesus has clearly stated the Word of God shall never pass away.

Come Lord Jesus!!!

Peace to you

Marooncat79 · 2025-12-15T14:24:38-0600

canadyjd said:
All efforts to validate the changing of the meaning of the words in scripture as an “interpretive translation” is the foundation of false teachers.

You do not need to change the meanings of the words in 2 Thessalonians 2:13 to understand what Paul is teaching.

He very clearly states we are chosen from the beginning, by God, for salvation. That is a separate and complete thought in context. When speaking in relation to God, in Jewish thought, the phrase “from the beginning” refers to Genesis.

There are places where Paul refers to the beginning of his ministry among certain Christians. These instances are also very clear in context.

Paul then elaborates on “how” that salvation occurs (not how the choosing occurs). We are sanctified (set apart) by God Holy Spirit which leads to faith in the truth.

This refers to the necessity of, first, the intervention of God Holy Spirit in the person’s life and, second, the preaching of the gospel (truth) concerning Jesus.

All efforts to change the truth of scripture are doomed to fail as Jesus has clearly stated the Word of God shall never pass away.

Come Lord Jesus!!!

Peace to you

Well stated

False teachers always have a better interpretation

Silverhair · 2025-12-15T16:08:46-0600

canadyjd said:
All efforts to validate the changing of the meaning of the words in scripture as an “interpretive translation” is the foundation of false teachers.

You do not need to change the meanings of the words in 2 Thessalonians 2:13 to understand what Paul is teaching.

He very clearly states we are chosen from the beginning, by God, for salvation. That is a separate and complete thought in context. When speaking in relation to God, in Jewish thought, the phrase “from the beginning” refers to Genesis.

There are places where Paul refers to the beginning of his ministry among certain Christians. These instances are also very clear in context.

Paul then elaborates on “how” that salvation occurs (not how the choosing occurs). We are sanctified (set apart) by God Holy Spirit which leads to faith in the truth.

This refers to the necessity of, first, the intervention of God Holy Spirit in the person’s life and, second, the preaching of the gospel (truth) concerning Jesus.

All efforts to change the truth of scripture are doomed to fail as Jesus has clearly stated the Word of God shall never pass away.

Come Lord Jesus!!!

Peace to you

We see that "from the beginning" in regard to salvation is from the beginning of the presentation of the gospel message.

Luk 1:2 just as those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word delivered them to us,

Joh 15:27 "And you also will bear witness, because you have been with Me from the beginning.

1Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life;

1Jn 2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you heard from the beginning.

1Jn 2:24 Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.

1Jn 3:11 For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another,

Now if you had just read one more verse you would not be so confused as to what Paul was saying to the Thessalonians.

2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,
2Th 2:14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

He was telling them not to be concerned that the Day of the Lord had come and that they had been left. 2Th 2:1-12

Paul shows that God foreknew all those that would freely trust in Him through hearing the gospel message which he preached.

These two verses [2Th_2:13-14] need to be read together if you want to grasp the truths that Paul is teaching. {God has called them via the gospel message which they believed and were thus sanctifided by the Holy Spirit.} Rom_10:17

canadyjd · 2025-12-15T20:30:46-0600

Silverhair said:
We see that "from the beginning" in regard to salvation is from the beginning of the presentation of the gospel message.

Luk 1:2 just as those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word delivered them to us,

Joh 15:27 "And you also will bear witness, because you have been with Me from the beginning.

1Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life;

1Jn 2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you heard from the beginning.

1Jn 2:24 Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.

1Jn 3:11 For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another,

Now if you had just read one more verse you would not be so confused as to what Paul was saying to the Thessalonians.

2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,
2Th 2:14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

He was telling them not to be concerned that the Day of the Lord had come and that they had been left. 2Th 2:1-12

Paul shows that God foreknew all those that would freely trust in Him through hearing the gospel message which he preached.

These two verses [2Th_2:13-14] need to be read together if you want to grasp the truths that Paul is teaching. {God has called them via the gospel message which they believed and were thus sanctifided by the Holy Spirit.} Rom_10:17

Like I said, @Silverhair, when “from the beginning” is used in the context of God doing something, it is referring to Genesis.

All the rest of the verses you cited have a very clear context with reference to time of people doing something.

I am not confused at all to the meaning of 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

I have no need to do an “interpretive translation” to make it fit what I believe. I simply read it and believe it.

I don’t expect you to agree. I would appreciate you not calling me “confused” because we disagree.

Peace to you

Silverhair · 2025-12-15T22:42:11-0600

canadyjd said:
Like I said, @Silverhair, when “from the beginning” is used in the context of God doing something, it is referring to Genesis.

All the rest of the verses you cited have a very clear context with reference to time of people doing something.

I am not confused at all to the meaning of 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

I have no need to do an “interpretive translation” to make it fit what I believe. I simply read it and believe it.

I don’t expect you to agree. I would appreciate you not calling me “confused” because we disagree.

Peace to you

If you actually read that verse in context you would see your error but that seems to be something that you have missed.

Yes we disagree and that is because you have ignored context. That is why I said you have missed the point of Paul's comments [2Th 2:1-15]. Context would clear up that misunderstanding.

canadyjd · 2025-12-15T22:44:33-0600

Silverhair said:
If you actually read that verse in context you would see your error but that seems to be something that you have missed.

Yes we disagree and that is because you have ignored context. That is why I said you have missed the point of Paul's comments [2Th 2:1-15]. Context would clear up that misunderstanding.

And so we disagree on the context and the meaning. Have a nice evening

Peace to you

Martin Marprelate · 2025-12-16T08:40:30-0600

canadyjd said:
Like I said, @Silverhair, when “from the beginning” is used in the context of God doing something, it is referring to Genesis.

All the rest of the verses you cited have a very clear context with reference to time of people doing something.

I am not confused at all to the meaning of 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

I have no need to do an “interpretive translation” to make it fit what I believe. I simply read it and believe it.

I don’t expect you to agree. I would appreciate you not calling me “confused” because we disagree.

Peace to you

You are, of course, quite correct.
When we look at any word, the context must be our primary informant. So when we look at the "interpretive translation," we immediately notice that the surrounding verses make no reference to the New Covenant.
But when we come to the words 'from the beginning,' we need to look a little harder.
Matthew 19:8. '....But from the beginning it was not so.' Here, 'from the beginning refers back first to verse 4, and then all the way back to Gen. 1:27.
1 John 1:1. 'That which was from the beginning ........ concerning the Word of life.' Clearly this referes to the Lord Jesus, and we should look to John 1:1, 'In the beginning was the Word.'

But this is not to contradict the various uses of 'from the beginning' which @Silverhair helpfully reproduced in post #13.
But how do we establish a time-frame for 2 Thes. 2:13? Well first of all we should hee @canadyjd helpful point that the text is in the context of God doing something and not man.
Secondly, we can look at another two texts which speak of God bringing salvation.
Titus 1:2. 'In hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began. Clearly this vers refers to the 'beginning.'
Eph. 1:4. '.... Just as He [God the Father] chose us before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love.' Unbelievers are not 'holy and without blame' before God, so this must refer to believers and their salvation.

I think these texts establish that God does indeed choose His people from the very beginning of time.

Silverhair · 2025-12-16T10:50:59-0600

Martin Marprelate said:
You are, of course, quite correct.
When we look at any word, the context must be our primary informant. So when we look at the "interpretive translation," we immediately notice that the surrounding verses make no reference to the New Covenant.
But when we come to the words 'from the beginning,' we need to look a little harder.
Matthew 19:8. '....But from the beginning it was not so.' Here, 'from the beginning refers back first to verse 4, and then all the way back to Gen. 1:27.
1 John 1:1. 'That which was from the beginning ........ concerning the Word of life.' Clearly this referes to the Lord Jesus, and we should look to John 1:1, 'In the beginning was the Word.'

But this is not to contradict the various uses of 'from the beginning' which @Silverhair helpfully reproduced in post #13.
But how do we establish a time-frame for 2 Thes. 2:13? Well first of all we should hee @canadyjd helpful point that the text is in the context of God doing something and not man.
Secondly, we can look at another two texts which speak of God bringing salvation.
Titus 1:2. 'In hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began. Clearly this vers refers to the 'beginning.'
Eph. 1:4. '.... Just as He [God the Father] chose us before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love.' Unbelievers are not 'holy and without blame' before God, so this must refer to believers and their salvation.

I think these texts establish that God does indeed choose His people from the very beginning of time.

@Martin Marprelate if we want to understand what Paul was referring to then it would be best to just look at what he wrote to the Thessalonians in that letter.

What do we see Paul speaking to in the first 12 verses?
2Th 2:1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,
2Th 2:2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.

It should be pointed out that you error when you say there is no reference to the New Covenant. Paul is writing to believers.

This point alone helps us establish a time frame for "from the beginning" as used in 2Th 2:13-14.

So the question then becomes when and why were they saved? Were they saved prior to creation or when they responded in faith to the gospel message?

Now we know the purpose of God was from eternity past but is only possible in the present.
Tit 1:2 in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised long ages ago,
Tit 1:3 but at the proper time manifested, even His word, in the proclamation with which I was entrusted according to the commandment of God our Savior,

So we see that the proclamation of the gospel is the beginning to which Paul was speaking.

In your use of Eph 1:4 you left out two critical words "in Him".
Eph 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him.

When and why are we found in Him?
Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

2Th 2:14 It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

So we have established via clear scripture that the "from the beginning" is from the beginning of their trusting in God.

Martin Marprelate · 2025-12-16T11:41:30-0600

Silverhair said:
So we have established via clear scripture that the "from the beginning" is from the beginning of their trusting in God.

I don't think we have. I'll take a few of your assertions and look at them.

Silverhair said:
What do we see Paul speaking to in the first 12 verses?
2Th 2:1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,
2Th 2:2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.

It should be pointed out that you error when you say there is no reference to the New Covenant. Paul is writing to believers.

That Paul is writing to believers (as he is in all his letters) is not at issue. However, the word 'covenant' (unless I have accidentally missed it), let alone 'new covenant' does not appear in the letter.

Silverhair said:
This point alone helps us establish a time frame for "from the beginning" as used in 2Th 2:13-14.

Why?

Silverhair said:
Now we know the purpose of God was from eternity past but is only possible in the present.
Tit 1:2 in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised long ages ago,
Tit 1:3 but at the proper time manifested, even His word, in the proclamation with which I was entrusted according to the commandment of God our Savior,

The words 'long ages ago' is not the best translation. The Greek is pro chronon aionion, 'before times eternal.'

Silverhair said:
So the question then becomes when and why were they saved? Were they saved prior to creation or when they responded in faith to the gospel message?

This is the source of your misunderstanding, I think. Being chosen for salvation is not the same as being saved, just as being chosen for a prize is not the same as receiving the prize.
Christians were chosen for salvation long, long before they were saved through 'sanctification by the Spirit and beief in the truth.' But they were going to be saved, even though they needed to believe. The Holy Spirit set them apart and opened their hearts to believe the good news spoken to them by Paul.

Silverhair said:
So we see that the proclamation of the gospel is the beginning to which Paul was speaking.

No. We see nothing of the kind.

Silverhair said:
In your use of Eph 1:4 you left out two critical words "in Him".
Eph 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him.

My apologies for this. I wrote the verse out rather than cutting and pasting it and unfortunately omitted the words in question. I always try to check what I write, but alas, not always accuratly :Frown

However, that does not alter the meaning on Eph. 1:4, but rather expands it. We were chosen before the foundation of the world in Christ, 'Whose goings forth are from of old, from the days of eternity' (Micah 5:2, NKJV margin). We were chosen for Christ to redeem, but we were not redeemed until He redeemed us in time.

Silverhair said:
When and why are we found in Him?
Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

2Th 2:14 It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Yep! That's exactly right!

Chosen in etenity, called, saved and sealed by the Spirit in time!

Van · 2025-12-16T12:01:08-0600

canadyjd said:
All efforts to validate the changing of the meaning of the words in scripture as an “interpretive translation” is the foundation of false teachers.

You do not need to change the meanings of the words in 2 Thessalonians 2:13 to understand what Paul is teaching.

He very clearly states we are chosen from the beginning, by God, for salvation. That is a separate and complete thought in context. When speaking in relation to God, in Jewish thought, the phrase “from the beginning” refers to Genesis.

There are places where Paul refers to the beginning of his ministry among certain Christians. These instances are also very clear in context.

Paul then elaborates on “how” that salvation occurs (not how the choosing occurs). We are sanctified (set apart) by God Holy Spirit which leads to faith in the truth.

This refers to the necessity of, first, the intervention of God Holy Spirit in the person’s life and, second, the preaching of the gospel (truth) concerning Jesus.

All efforts to change the truth of scripture are doomed to fail as Jesus has clearly stated the Word of God shall never pass away.

Come Lord Jesus!!!

Peace to you

It is very clear from the context, Paul is speaking of the beginning of the New covenant in 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

Paul elaborates on "how" the election for salvation is accomplished.

Clearly the Calvinist effort to transform the noun "salvation" into the verb "saved" is their effort to rewrite the verse to avoid its doctrinal teaching of conditional election, through faith in the truth.

And again, folks, note the effort to charge me with their malfeasance. That is all they have to offer...

Study 2 Thessalonians 2:13

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