• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

If God is Not Sovereign, Then There is No Grace

Status
Not open for further replies.
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
Sorry BF but you can rant all you want but the truth is the truth. Only God saves but He only saves those the have freely trusted in Him.

That is something that you do not seem to be able to understand or accept.
Click to expand...
God makes salvation possible, then what actually saved a person since God comes short of the goal.
 
M

Martin Marprelate

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Silverhair said:
Yes Jesus makes salvation possible for all but only those that freely trust in Him will be saved.

If we just went by your view then we would have universal salvation as He was the propitiation for the whole world 1Jn 2:2 He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Mar_16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Act_2:21 And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’

Yes Jesus saves but if you leave out the condition of faith then you are preaching a false message.
Click to expand...
You helped me this evening. I was leading a prayer meeting at my church and was looking for a Christmas-themed word to start the meeting.
1 Timothy 1:15 came to mind from our discussion. 'This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.' He didn't come to offer salvation to anyone; He came to save. And the people He came to save are sinners. It's a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptance; why won't you accept it?

This is a historically important verse because it was a catalyst for the Reformation in England. Thomas Bilney was a young Roman Catholic priest who was in great doubt about his salvation. He went through all the R.C. sacraments, plus pilgrimages and flagellation, but nothing helped him, mainly because he was never encouraged to read the Bible. In 1516, Desiderimus Erasmus published a new edition of the Greek N.T. with a Latin translation (Rome prohibited English translations). Bilney knew no Greek, but he did know Latin. He obtained a Latin Testament and began to read. When he reached 1 Tim. 1:15, his eyes were opened. He knew he was a sinner, but the text said that Christ had come to save sinners, and if Paul said he was chief of sinners, there must be hope for Bilney. He put his trust in Christ and began to tell other priests the Good News. He was responsible for the conversion of Hugh Latimer, who was very instrumental in the English Reformation. Bilney himself was burned at the stake in 1531 (and Latimer 20-odd years later), but by God's grace he had started something that brought hope for millions.

Now no one is saying that salvation is by grace but not by faith. Whenever I preach I call on people to trust in Christ. But Jesus Christ came into the world, not to offer anyone anything, but to save sinners, and He will save His people from their sins. Someone has rightly suggested that on the outside of the gate of heaven there is a sign saying, "Whoever will may enter." But when one enters and looks back at the inside of the gate he will read, "Chosen from the foundation of the world."
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
You don't know how serious it is to reduce the Savior of sinners to a possible Savior.
Click to expand...

Can you calvinists be honest for once and not twist what people say.

God is the savior but only those that freely trust in Him will be saved.

I know that does not fit your false religion but it is biblical.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Martin Marprelate said:
You helped me this evening. I was leading a prayer meeting at my church and was looking for a Christmas-themed word to start the meeting.
1 Timothy 1:15 came to mind from our discussion. 'This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.' He didn't come to offer salvation to anyone; He came to save. And the people He came to save are sinners. It's a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptance; why won't you accept it?

This is a historically important verse because it was a catalyst for the Reformation in England. Thomas Bilney was a young Roman Catholic priest who was in great doubt about his salvation. He went through all the R.C. sacraments, plus pilgrimages and flagellation, but nothing helped him, mainly because he was never encouraged to read the Bible. In 1516, Desiderimus Erasmus published a new edition of the Greek N.T. with a Latin translation (Rome prohibited English translations). Bilney knew no Greek, but he did know Latin. He obtained a Latin Testament and began to read. When he reached 1 Tim. 1:15, his eyes were opened. He knew he was a sinner, but the text said that Christ had come to save sinners, and if Paul said he was chief of sinners, there must be hope for Bilney. He put his trust in Christ and began to tell other priests the Good News. He was responsible for the conversion of Hugh Latimer, who was very instrumental in the English Reformation. Bilney himself was burned at the stake in 1531 (and Latimer 20-odd years later), but by God's grace he had started something that brought hope for millions.

Now no one is saying that salvation is by grace but not by faith. Whenever I preach I call on people to trust in Christ. But Jesus Christ came into the world, not to offer anyone anything, but to save sinners, and He will save His people from their sins. Someone has rightly suggested that on the outside of the gate of heaven there is a sign saying, "Whoever will may enter." But when one enters and looks back at the inside of the gate he will read, "Chosen from the foundation of the world."
Click to expand...

I know you are not blind as you actually respond to written text so I have to conclude that you are just ignoring what I have said.

Only God saves but He only saves those that believe. Jesus made salvation possible for the whole world.

It seems you have a problem with that.

Eph 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not by works, so that no one can boast.


Joh 3:14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,
Joh 3:15 that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.

Why won't you accept the fact that Christ will not save anyone until they freely trust in God?

For some odd reason calvinists have a hard time understanding what a person says unless they use the exact words the calvinist are looking for.

But then again they also have a hard time accepting the words God has inspired so why should we be surprised.
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Brightfame52 said:
You making unproven claims. Peter writes about Christ blood redemption right here 1 Peter 1:18-19. Why would he change in his second epistle?
Click to expand...
You are making unproved and demonstratively false claims. Anyone can contribute nothing with these posts.

For example you address redemption when the issue is ransom. Anyone can sidestep truth and post diversion.
 
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Van said:
You are making unproved and demonstratively false claims. Anyone can contribute nothing with these posts.

For example you address redemption when the issue is ransom. Anyone can sidestep truth and post diversion.
Click to expand...
Is Peter double minded? He just wrote to the same people that Christ Blood redeemed them from a vain manner of life, that is false religion. He used a different Greek word. 1 Pet 1:18-19 so explain that.
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Brightfame52 said:
Is Peter double minded? He just wrote to the same people that Christ Blood redeemed them from a vain manner of life, that is false religion. He used a different Greek word. 1 Pet 1:18-19 so explain that.
Click to expand...
Are you mentally challenged, 1 Peter 1:18 addresses "redemption" not "ransom." Unless you address that paying the price for the ransom only results in the release from bondage at the discretion the the one enforcing the bondage you are simply spiting in the wind.

God chooses who He will give to Christ from all those "ransomed." Only we an individual is given to Christ, transferred into Christ, baptized into Christ, called into Christ, does the individual "receive" the reconciliation provided by the blood of the lamb.

The failure to address this truth indicates purposeful deception, rather than ignorance.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
David Lamb said:
Yes, He shall save, not "He shall make salvation a possibility."
Click to expand...

So since Christ said He would draw all people to Himself if He were lifted up and He was does that mean that all people are saved?

Mat 1:21 "She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins."

Since the Jews are His people are all the Jews saved?
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
KenH said:
His people are all of God's elect, chosen before the world began and given to Christ to be their Surety, from among both Jews and Gentiles. (Ephesians 1:3-4)
Click to expand...

Sorry Ken that is just your misreading of the text.

God foreknows all that will freely trust in Him but He has not chosen who will do so.
 
KenH

KenH

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
God foreknows all that will freely trust in Him
Click to expand...

But according to free-willism, how can God "foreknow" something? What if by "free will" the creature doesn't do what God "foreknew" that he would do? Or are you saying that once God "foreknows" something, that there is no longer "free will" to do something different?
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Brightfame52 said:
Insults. Peter specifically teaches about Christ Blood redemption in 1 Peter 1:18-19. Now why would he change in 2 Pet 2:1?
Click to expand...
Once again diversion because of the inability to address the topic.

Only a mentally challenged person, with the total inability to tell the truth, would fail to address the difference between ransom and redemption.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
That He merely made salvation possible or potential. Who makes it actual then?
Click to expand...

FAITH = the assurance of what we hope for and the certainty of what we do not see.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith,

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes,

If you do not believe then you will not be saved.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top