If God is Not Sovereign, Then There is No Grace

[Brightfame52]

Read your bible BF.

You don't know how serious it is to reduce the Savior of sinners to a possible Savior.

 

[Brightfame52]

Sorry BF but you can rant all you want but the truth is the truth. Only God saves but He only saves those the have freely trusted in Him.

That is something that you do not seem to be able to understand or accept.

God makes salvation possible, then what actually saved a person since God comes short of the goal.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Yes Jesus makes salvation possible for all but only those that freely trust in Him will be saved.

If we just went by your view then we would have universal salvation as He was the propitiation for the whole world 1Jn 2:2 He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Mar_16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Act_2:21 And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’

Yes Jesus saves but if you leave out the condition of faith then you are preaching a false message.

You helped me this evening. I was leading a prayer meeting at my church and was looking for a Christmas-themed word to start the meeting.
1 Timothy 1:15 came to mind from our discussion. 'This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.' He didn't come to offer salvation to anyone; He came to save. And the people He came to save are sinners. It's a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptance; why won't you accept it?

This is a historically important verse because it was a catalyst for the Reformation in England. Thomas Bilney was a young Roman Catholic priest who was in great doubt about his salvation. He went through all the R.C. sacraments, plus pilgrimages and flagellation, but nothing helped him, mainly because he was never encouraged to read the Bible. In 1516, Desiderimus Erasmus published a new edition of the Greek N.T. with a Latin translation (Rome prohibited English translations). Bilney knew no Greek, but he did know Latin. He obtained a Latin Testament and began to read. When he reached 1 Tim. 1:15, his eyes were opened. He knew he was a sinner, but the text said that Christ had come to save sinners, and if Paul said he was chief of sinners, there must be hope for Bilney. He put his trust in Christ and began to tell other priests the Good News. He was responsible for the conversion of Hugh Latimer, who was very instrumental in the English Reformation. Bilney himself was burned at the stake in 1531 (and Latimer 20-odd years later), but by God's grace he had started something that brought hope for millions.

Now no one is saying that salvation is by grace but not by faith. Whenever I preach I call on people to trust in Christ. But Jesus Christ came into the world, not to offer anyone anything, but to save sinners, and He will save His people from their sins. Someone has rightly suggested that on the outside of the gate of heaven there is a sign saying, "Whoever will may enter." But when one enters and looks back at the inside of the gate he will read, "Chosen from the foundation of the world."

 

[Silverhair]

You don't know how serious it is to reduce the Savior of sinners to a possible Savior.

Can you calvinists be honest for once and not twist what people say.

God is the savior but only those that freely trust in Him will be saved.

I know that does not fit your false religion but it is biblical.

 

[Silverhair]

You helped me this evening. I was leading a prayer meeting at my church and was looking for a Christmas-themed word to start the meeting.
1 Timothy 1:15 came to mind from our discussion. 'This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.' He didn't come to offer salvation to anyone; He came to save. And the people He came to save are sinners. It's a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptance; why won't you accept it?

This is a historically important verse because it was a catalyst for the Reformation in England. Thomas Bilney was a young Roman Catholic priest who was in great doubt about his salvation. He went through all the R.C. sacraments, plus pilgrimages and flagellation, but nothing helped him, mainly because he was never encouraged to read the Bible. In 1516, Desiderimus Erasmus published a new edition of the Greek N.T. with a Latin translation (Rome prohibited English translations). Bilney knew no Greek, but he did know Latin. He obtained a Latin Testament and began to read. When he reached 1 Tim. 1:15, his eyes were opened. He knew he was a sinner, but the text said that Christ had come to save sinners, and if Paul said he was chief of sinners, there must be hope for Bilney. He put his trust in Christ and began to tell other priests the Good News. He was responsible for the conversion of Hugh Latimer, who was very instrumental in the English Reformation. Bilney himself was burned at the stake in 1531 (and Latimer 20-odd years later), but by God's grace he had started something that brought hope for millions.

Now no one is saying that salvation is by grace but not by faith. Whenever I preach I call on people to trust in Christ. But Jesus Christ came into the world, not to offer anyone anything, but to save sinners, and He will save His people from their sins. Someone has rightly suggested that on the outside of the gate of heaven there is a sign saying, "Whoever will may enter." But when one enters and looks back at the inside of the gate he will read, "Chosen from the foundation of the world."

I know you are not blind as you actually respond to written text so I have to conclude that you are just ignoring what I have said.

Only God saves but He only saves those that believe. Jesus made salvation possible for the whole world.

It seems you have a problem with that.

Eph 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not by works, so that no one can boast.


Joh 3:14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,
Joh 3:15 that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.

Why won't you accept the fact that Christ will not save anyone until they freely trust in God?

For some odd reason calvinists have a hard time understanding what a person says unless they use the exact words the calvinist are looking for.

But then again they also have a hard time accepting the words God has inspired so why should we be surprised.