Seeker Sensitive: Is It Biblical?

Serving pork to a Jew and beef to a Hindu has nothing to do with the Seeker Sensitive ideology. Rick Warren and Bill Hybels are not "seeking" out the lost--they are doing a "marketing" program for the "unchurched"--finding out what people (the unchurched) are "seeking" in a church. Nine times out of ten, these people are not "seeking" to hear the Gospel. It is a marketing plan to find out how to please the "flesh". Pleasing the "flesh" is not what church is all about--but preaching the gospel is. </font>[/QUOTE]This is partially correct. I do think they are seeking out the lost whom they believe are seeking God. Their error is in the whole idea that the lost are seeking God, when Scripture has made it clear that they do not. The whole idea of lost people who seek God is unBiblical because they are seeking to satisfy their own sinful natures. This is where you are correct. When one polls those who are seeking to satisfy their own sinful natures, we should not be surprised that they are not seeking God and that when we follow their advice for worship, that it becomes more worldly and less Biblical.

Joseph Botwinick

 

There are no true seekers of God among the lost. It is God who seeks them out and saves them.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Really? The Bible is filled with Scripture those who seek God, those who do not seek God and the consequences which result from it, and God's plead to seek Him.

Sounds "seeker sensitive" to me...


Deu 4:29 But from there, you will search for the LORD your God, and you will find Him when you seek Him with all your heart and all your soul.

1Sa 7:2 Time went by until 20 years had passed since the ark had been taken to Kiriath-jearim. Then the whole house of Israel began to seek the LORD.

1Ch 16:10 Honor His holy name; let the hearts of those who seek the LORD rejoice.

1Ch 16:11 Search for the LORD and for His strength; seek His face always.

1Ch 22:19 Now determine in your mind and heart to seek the LORD your God. Get started building the LORD God's sanctuary so that you may bring the ark of the LORD's covenant and the holy articles of God to the temple that is to be built for the name of the LORD."

1Ch 28:8 "So now in the sight of all Israel, the assembly of the LORD, and in the hearing of our God, observe and seek after all the commandments of the LORD your God so that you may possess this good land and leave it as an inheritance to your descendants forever.

1Ch 28:9 "As for you, Solomon my son, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a whole heart and a willing mind, for the LORD searches every heart and understands the intention of every thought. If you seek Him, He will be found by you,

2Ch 7:14 and My people who are called by My name humble themselves, pray and seek My face, and turn from their evil ways, then I will hear from heaven, forgive their sin, and heal their land.

2Ch 11:16 Those from every tribe of Israel who had determined in their hearts to seek the LORD their God followed the Levites to Jerusalem to sacrifice to the LORD God of their ancestors.

2Ch 12:14 Rehoboam did what was evil, because he did not determine in his heart to seek the LORD.

2Ch 14:4 He told the people of Judah to seek the LORD God of their ancestors and to carry out the instruction and the command.

2Ch 15:2 So he went out to meet Asa and said to him, "Asa and all Judah and Benjamin, hear me. The LORD is with you when you are with Him. If you seek Him, He will be found by you, but if you abandon Him, He will abandon you.

2Ch 15:12 Then they entered into a covenant to seek the LORD God of their ancestors with all their mind and all their heart.

2Ch 15:13 Whoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel would be put to death, young or old, man or woman.

2Ch 16:12 In the thirty-ninth year of his reign, Asa developed a disease in his feet, and his disease became increasingly severe. Yet even in his disease he didn't seek the LORD but the physicians.

2Ch 19:3 However, some good is found in you, for you have removed the Asherah poles from the land and have decided to seek God."

2Ch 20:3 Jehoshaphat was afraid, so he resolved to seek the LORD. So he proclaimed a fast for all Judah,

2Ch 20:4 who gathered to seek the LORD. They even came from all the cities of Judah to seek Him.

2Ch 31:21 He was diligent in every deed that he began in the service of God's temple, in the law and in the commandment, in order to seek his God, and he prospered.

2Ch 34:3 In the eighth year of his reign, while he was still a youth, Josiah began to seek the God of his ancestor David, and in the twelfth year he began to cleanse Judah and Jerusalem of the high places, the Asherah poles, the carved images, and the cast images.

Ezr 8:22 I did this because I was ashamed to ask the king for infantry and cavalry to protect us from enemies during the journey, since we had told him, "The hand of our God is gracious to all who seek Him, but His great anger is against all who abandon Him."

Job 8:5 But if you earnestly seek God and ask the Almighty for mercy,

Psa 7:1 A Shiggaion of David, which he sang to the LORD concerning the words of Cush, a Benjaminite. LORD my God, I seek refuge in You; save me from all my pursuers and rescue me,

Psa 9:10 Those who know Your name trust in You because You have not abandoned those who seek You, LORD.

Psa 18:2 The LORD is my rock, my fortress, and my deliverer, my God, my mountain where I seek refuge, my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghol

Psa 22:26 The humble will eat and be satisfied; those who seek the LORD will praise Him. May your hearts live forever!

Psa 24:6 Such is the generation of those who seek Him, who seek the face of the God of Jacob. Selah

Psa 27:8 In Your behalf my heart says, "Seek My face." LORD, I will seek Your face.

Psa 34:10 Young lions lack food and go hungry, but those who seek the LORD will not lack any good thing.

Psa 40:16 Let all who seek You rejoice and be glad in You; let those who love Your salvation continually say, The LORD is great!"

Psa 63:1 A Davidic psalm. When he was in the Wilderness of Judah. God, You are my God; I eagerly seek You. I thirst for You; my body faints for You in a land that is dry, desolate, and without water.

Psa 69:6 Do not let those who put their hope in You be disgraced because of me, Lord GOD of Hosts; do not let those who seek You be humiliated because of me, God of Israel.

Psa 69:32 The humble will see it and rejoice. You who seek God, take heart!

Psa 70:4 Let all who seek You rejoice and be glad in You; let those who love Your salvation continually say, "God is great!"

Psa 78:34 When He killed some of them, the rest began to seek Him; they repented and searched for God.

Psa 83:16 Cover their faces with shame so that they will seek Your name, LORD.

Psa 105:3 Honor His holy name; let the hearts of those who seek the LORD rejoice.

Psa 105:4 Search for the LORD and for His strength; seek His face always.

Psa 119:2 Happy are those who keep His decrees and seek Him with all their heart.

Psa 119:155 Salvation is far from the wicked because they do not seek Your statutes.

Psa 141:8 But my eyes look to You, Lord GOD. I seek refuge in You; do not let me die.

Pro 28:5 Evil men do not understand justice, but those who seek the LORD understand everything.

Isa 9:13 The people did not turn to Him who struck them; they did not seek the LORD of Hosts.

Isa 11:10 On that day the root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples. The nations will seek Him, and His resting place will be glorious.

Isa 31:1 Woe to those who go down to Egypt for help and who depend on horses! They trust in the number of chariots and in the great strength of charioteers. They do not look to the Holy One of Israel and they do not seek the LORD's help.

Isa 41:17 The poor and the needy seek water, but there is none; their tongues are parched with thirst. I, the LORD, will answer them; I, the God of Israel, do not forsake them.

Isa 45:19 I have not spoken in secret, somewhere in a land of darkness. I did not say to the descendants of Jacob: Seek Me in a wasteland. I, the LORD, speak truthfully; I say what is right.

Isa 51:1 Listen to Me, you who pursue righteousness, you who seek the LORD: Look to the rock from which you were cut, and to the quarry from which you were dug.

Isa 55:6 Seek the LORD while He may be found; call to Him while He is near.

Isa 65:1 "I was sought by those who did not ask; I was found by those who did not seek Me. I said: Here I am, here I am, to a nation that was not called by My name.

Jer 10:21 For the shepherds are stupid: they don't seek the LORD. Therefore they have not prospered, and their whole flock is scattered.

Jer 29:13 You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart.

Jer 50:4 In those days and at that time--this is the LORD's declaration--the Israelites and Judeans will come together, weeping as they come, and will seek the LORD their God.

Dan 9:3 So I turned my attention to the Lord God to seek Him by prayer and petitions, with fasting, sackcloth, and ashes.

Hos 3:5 Afterwards, the people of Israel will return and seek the LORD their God and David their king. They will come with awe to the LORD and to His goodness in the last days.

Hos 5:6 They go with their flocks and herds to seek the LORD but do not find Him; He has withdrawn from them.

Hos 5:15 I will depart and return to My place until they recognize their guilt and seek My face; they will search for Me in their distress.

Hos 7:10 Israel's arrogance testifies against them, yet they do not return to the LORD their God, and for all this, they do not seek Him.

Hos 10:12 Sow righteousness for yourselves and reap faithful love; break up your untilled ground. It is time to seek the LORD until He comes and sends righteousness on you like the rain.

Amo 5:4 For the LORD says to the house of Israel: Seek Me and live!

Amo 5:6 Seek Yahweh and live, or He will spread like fire throughout the house of Joseph; it will consume everything, with no one at Bethel to extinguish it.

Amo 5:14 Seek good and not evil so that you may live, and the LORD, the God of Hosts, will be with you, as you have claimed.

Zep 1:6 and those who turn back from following the LORD, who do not seek the LORD or inquire of Him.

Zep 2:3 Seek the LORD, all you humble of the earth, who carry out what He commands. Seek righteousness, seek humility; perhaps you will be concealed on the day of the LORD's anger.

Zec 8:21 the residents of one city will go to another, saying: Let's go at once to plead for the LORD's favor and to seek the LORD of Hosts. I am also going.

Zec 8:22 Many peoples and strong nations will come to seek the LORD of Hosts in Jerusalem and to plead for the LORD's favor."

Mal 3:1 "See, I am going to send My messenger, and he will clear the way before Me. Then the Lord you seek will suddenly come to His temple, the Messenger of the covenant you desire--see, He is coming," says the LORD of Hosts.

Mat 6:33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be provided for you.

Luk 12:31 "But seek His kingdom, and these things will be provided for you.

Joh 5:44 How can you believe? While accepting glory from one another, you don't seek the glory that comes from the only God.

Act 15:17 so that those who are left of mankind may seek the Lord--even all the Gentiles who are called by My name, says the Lord who does these things,

Act 17:27 so that they might seek God, and perhaps they might reach out and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us.

Phi 2:21 all seek their own interests, not those of Jesus Christ.

Heb 11:6 Now without faith it is impossible to please God, for the one who draws near to Him must believe that He exists and rewards those who seek Him.

 

Really? The Bible is filled with Scripture those who seek God, those who do not seek God and the consequences which result from it, and God's plead to seek Him.

Sounds "seeker sensitive" to me...


Deu 4:29 But from there, you will search for the LORD your God, and you will find Him when you seek Him with all your heart and all your soul.

1Sa 7:2 Time went by until 20 years had passed since the ark had been taken to Kiriath-jearim. Then the whole house of Israel began to seek the LORD.

1Ch 16:10 Honor His holy name; let the hearts of those who seek the LORD rejoice.

1Ch 16:11 Search for the LORD and for His strength; seek His face always.

1Ch 22:19 Now determine in your mind and heart to seek the LORD your God. Get started building the LORD God's sanctuary so that you may bring the ark of the LORD's covenant and the holy articles of God to the temple that is to be built for the name of the LORD."

1Ch 28:8 "So now in the sight of all Israel, the assembly of the LORD, and in the hearing of our God, observe and seek after all the commandments of the LORD your God so that you may possess this good land and leave it as an inheritance to your descendants forever.

1Ch 28:9 "As for you, Solomon my son, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a whole heart and a willing mind, for the LORD searches every heart and understands the intention of every thought. If you seek Him, He will be found by you,

2Ch 7:14 and My people who are called by My name humble themselves, pray and seek My face, and turn from their evil ways, then I will hear from heaven, forgive their sin, and heal their land.

2Ch 11:16 Those from every tribe of Israel who had determined in their hearts to seek the LORD their God followed the Levites to Jerusalem to sacrifice to the LORD God of their ancestors.

2Ch 12:14 Rehoboam did what was evil, because he did not determine in his heart to seek the LORD.

2Ch 14:4 He told the people of Judah to seek the LORD God of their ancestors and to carry out the instruction and the command.

2Ch 15:2 So he went out to meet Asa and said to him, "Asa and all Judah and Benjamin, hear me. The LORD is with you when you are with Him. If you seek Him, He will be found by you, but if you abandon Him, He will abandon you.

2Ch 15:12 Then they entered into a covenant to seek the LORD God of their ancestors with all their mind and all their heart.

2Ch 15:13 Whoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel would be put to death, young or old, man or woman.

2Ch 16:12 In the thirty-ninth year of his reign, Asa developed a disease in his feet, and his disease became increasingly severe. Yet even in his disease he didn't seek the LORD but the physicians.

2Ch 19:3 However, some good is found in you, for you have removed the Asherah poles from the land and have decided to seek God."

2Ch 20:3 Jehoshaphat was afraid, so he resolved to seek the LORD. So he proclaimed a fast for all Judah,

2Ch 20:4 who gathered to seek the LORD. They even came from all the cities of Judah to seek Him.

2Ch 31:21 He was diligent in every deed that he began in the service of God's temple, in the law and in the commandment, in order to seek his God, and he prospered.

2Ch 34:3 In the eighth year of his reign, while he was still a youth, Josiah began to seek the God of his ancestor David, and in the twelfth year he began to cleanse Judah and Jerusalem of the high places, the Asherah poles, the carved images, and the cast images.

Ezr 8:22 I did this because I was ashamed to ask the king for infantry and cavalry to protect us from enemies during the journey, since we had told him, "The hand of our God is gracious to all who seek Him, but His great anger is against all who abandon Him."

Job 8:5 But if you earnestly seek God and ask the Almighty for mercy,

Psa 7:1 A Shiggaion of David, which he sang to the LORD concerning the words of Cush, a Benjaminite. LORD my God, I seek refuge in You; save me from all my pursuers and rescue me,

Psa 9:10 Those who know Your name trust in You because You have not abandoned those who seek You, LORD.

Psa 18:2 The LORD is my rock, my fortress, and my deliverer, my God, my mountain where I seek refuge, my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghol

Psa 22:26 The humble will eat and be satisfied; those who seek the LORD will praise Him. May your hearts live forever!

Psa 24:6 Such is the generation of those who seek Him, who seek the face of the God of Jacob. Selah

Psa 27:8 In Your behalf my heart says, "Seek My face." LORD, I will seek Your face.

Psa 34:10 Young lions lack food and go hungry, but those who seek the LORD will not lack any good thing.

Psa 40:16 Let all who seek You rejoice and be glad in You; let those who love Your salvation continually say, The LORD is great!"

Psa 63:1 A Davidic psalm. When he was in the Wilderness of Judah. God, You are my God; I eagerly seek You. I thirst for You; my body faints for You in a land that is dry, desolate, and without water.

Psa 69:6 Do not let those who put their hope in You be disgraced because of me, Lord GOD of Hosts; do not let those who seek You be humiliated because of me, God of Israel.

Psa 69:32 The humble will see it and rejoice. You who seek God, take heart!

Psa 70:4 Let all who seek You rejoice and be glad in You; let those who love Your salvation continually say, "God is great!"

Psa 78:34 When He killed some of them, the rest began to seek Him; they repented and searched for God.

Psa 83:16 Cover their faces with shame so that they will seek Your name, LORD.

Psa 105:3 Honor His holy name; let the hearts of those who seek the LORD rejoice.

Psa 105:4 Search for the LORD and for His strength; seek His face always.

Psa 119:2 Happy are those who keep His decrees and seek Him with all their heart.

Psa 119:155 Salvation is far from the wicked because they do not seek Your statutes.

Psa 141:8 But my eyes look to You, Lord GOD. I seek refuge in You; do not let me die.

Pro 28:5 Evil men do not understand justice, but those who seek the LORD understand everything.

Isa 9:13 The people did not turn to Him who struck them; they did not seek the LORD of Hosts.

Isa 11:10 On that day the root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples. The nations will seek Him, and His resting place will be glorious.

Isa 31:1 Woe to those who go down to Egypt for help and who depend on horses! They trust in the number of chariots and in the great strength of charioteers. They do not look to the Holy One of Israel and they do not seek the LORD's help.

Isa 41:17 The poor and the needy seek water, but there is none; their tongues are parched with thirst. I, the LORD, will answer them; I, the God of Israel, do not forsake them.

Isa 45:19 I have not spoken in secret, somewhere in a land of darkness. I did not say to the descendants of Jacob: Seek Me in a wasteland. I, the LORD, speak truthfully; I say what is right.

Isa 51:1 Listen to Me, you who pursue righteousness, you who seek the LORD: Look to the rock from which you were cut, and to the quarry from which you were dug.

Isa 55:6 Seek the LORD while He may be found; call to Him while He is near.

Isa 65:1 "I was sought by those who did not ask; I was found by those who did not seek Me. I said: Here I am, here I am, to a nation that was not called by My name.

Jer 10:21 For the shepherds are stupid: they don't seek the LORD. Therefore they have not prospered, and their whole flock is scattered.

Jer 29:13 You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart.

Jer 50:4 In those days and at that time--this is the LORD's declaration--the Israelites and Judeans will come together, weeping as they come, and will seek the LORD their God.

Dan 9:3 So I turned my attention to the Lord God to seek Him by prayer and petitions, with fasting, sackcloth, and ashes.

Hos 3:5 Afterwards, the people of Israel will return and seek the LORD their God and David their king. They will come with awe to the LORD and to His goodness in the last days.

Hos 5:6 They go with their flocks and herds to seek the LORD but do not find Him; He has withdrawn from them.

Hos 5:15 I will depart and return to My place until they recognize their guilt and seek My face; they will search for Me in their distress.

Hos 7:10 Israel's arrogance testifies against them, yet they do not return to the LORD their God, and for all this, they do not seek Him.

Hos 10:12 Sow righteousness for yourselves and reap faithful love; break up your untilled ground. It is time to seek the LORD until He comes and sends righteousness on you like the rain.

Amo 5:4 For the LORD says to the house of Israel: Seek Me and live!

Amo 5:6 Seek Yahweh and live, or He will spread like fire throughout the house of Joseph; it will consume everything, with no one at Bethel to extinguish it.

Amo 5:14 Seek good and not evil so that you may live, and the LORD, the God of Hosts, will be with you, as you have claimed.

Zep 1:6 and those who turn back from following the LORD, who do not seek the LORD or inquire of Him.

Zep 2:3 Seek the LORD, all you humble of the earth, who carry out what He commands. Seek righteousness, seek humility; perhaps you will be concealed on the day of the LORD's anger.

Zec 8:21 the residents of one city will go to another, saying: Let's go at once to plead for the LORD's favor and to seek the LORD of Hosts. I am also going.

Zec 8:22 Many peoples and strong nations will come to seek the LORD of Hosts in Jerusalem and to plead for the LORD's favor."

Mal 3:1 "See, I am going to send My messenger, and he will clear the way before Me. Then the Lord you seek will suddenly come to His temple, the Messenger of the covenant you desire--see, He is coming," says the LORD of Hosts.

Mat 6:33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be provided for you.

Luk 12:31 "But seek His kingdom, and these things will be provided for you.

Joh 5:44 How can you believe? While accepting glory from one another, you don't seek the glory that comes from the only God.

Act 15:17 so that those who are left of mankind may seek the Lord--even all the Gentiles who are called by My name, says the Lord who does these things,

Act 17:27 so that they might seek God, and perhaps they might reach out and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us.

Phi 2:21 all seek their own interests, not those of Jesus Christ.

Heb 11:6 Now without faith it is impossible to please God, for the one who draws near to Him must believe that He exists and rewards those who seek Him. </font>[/QUOTE]

Romans 3:10b-11

Joseph Botwinick

 

Nope. First of all, none of those passages deals with the state of fallen mankind. Most of them are statements of what God has commanded. The passage in Romans deals with the reality of Sinful man and their total depravity. Just because God commands that we do something does not mean that we can do it on our own. A good example of this would be the words of Jesus:

Matthew 5:48

Without the help of God, we cannot do these things. Where we are weak in our sin, God is strong in his holiness.

Second, I would argue that all of those passages would need to be interpreted in light of what God said through Paul. For example, 2 Chronicles 7:14: Since nobody does seek God as Paul says, how can Israel follow the instructions of the Lord? I think further enlightenment can be found in 2 Corinthians 3:

IOW, Though we are not capable of Seeking God as lost sinners because we are slaves to sin, with God, all things are possible. God changes the will of man when he saves him. Totally depraved, sinful lost mankind does not seek after God. They seek the things of this world and that which satisfies their sinful flesh. The Grace and power of God can still reach them though.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Only a reformer would believe that God commands something without giving that person a the ability to respond to His command. Sad theology. Are you sure, too, that NONE of those passages deal with the state of fallen mankind? I would suggest you go back and re-read them...

In context the passage in Romans deals with the "fool" spoken about in Psalm 14...the passage it has been quoted from. To claim this applies to all mankind is eisegesis.

 

In the above post, I messed up the quote function. The Romans 8:2 verse was in response to Matthew 5:48 and the ability to strive to live perfect (within the Spirit's law of life) lives.

The agreement was in response to "...with God, all things are possible".

 

Only a reformer would believe that God commands something without giving that person a the ability to respond to His command. Sad theology.</font>[/QUOTE]Actually, it is the view of the reformers that it is only through the power of God that we are capable of denying our sin nature, which all lost people are slaves to, according to Scripture. It is the Arminian position that man can choose God and deny the sin nature all on his own without the help of God. Now, that is sad theology because it is unscriptural.

Are you sure, too, that NONE of those passages deal with the state of fallen mankind? I would suggest you go back and re-read them...[/QUOTE]

Yes. I am pretty sure since they mostly either deal with commands from God and those whom obeyed those commands. They do not, however, build a case that all men are capable in their own power to seek or even obey God.

In context the passage in Romans deals with the "fool" spoken about in Psalm 14...the passage it has been quoted from. To claim this applies to all mankind is eisegesis.[/QUOTE]

It is very clear that the context of this passage is not dealing with one individual, but rather, with the collective total depravity of all mankind whether they be Jew or Gentile.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Joseph,

Well done; very cogent and scriptural arguments. You are correct.

 

As one who was a seeker some years back, that last one pretty much covers it.

 

Best reply I can give you is some old country advice: Farmers fill the trough and let the cows come eat. They don't stand around talking about what kind of feed to use.

 

You must be a city boy

 

Sorry, I missed that response. Did I give some bad country advice?

 

Don,

The analogy is flawed because "what to feed" is not/should never be part of the discussion of being seeker sensative. Seeker sensative is about methods used to get out the Gospel and how to present to Gospel to as many as possible in the most understandable way possible. But whatever the method, it's always the Gospel that's being placed in the trough.

Maybe a better analogy would be if the farmer puts the feed in the trough, and the trough is in a field with 10,000 cows but only 100 cows ever come to the trough to eat, what can he do to get the others to feed?

(btw, there are lots of options with regards to cattle feed, and farmers will spend lots of time talking about what to put in the trough)

 

Just my be-it-ever-so-humble opinion (which, as I've mentioned before, opinions are like armpits: Everyone's got at least two, and some stink worse than others) ... but farmers talk about what kind of feed to use so their cows grow to certain weights, produce sweeter milk, etc.

I haven't heard them converse about getting them to eat in the first place.

But yeah, I'm only partially a country boy, and better fit the term "poor white trailer trash."

 

I hear ya Don. I lived on the farm till I was 10, then mom and dad got all civilized and moved us to the big city. (Population slightly over 2000)