Women aren't second-class believers

Yes.

 

Yes, by the authorities.

The Husband initiated the force by striking his spouse.

The verse on the body being the temple of the Holy Spirit is INDEED relevant. Respecting your body means not allowing anyone to abuse it, be they your spouse, or a stranger.

 

I have just read through some of the pages here, and I cannot believe that there are actually people defending those that Abuse their wives?

If that is the attitude or way that "Fundamentalism" is viewed, put me in the Liberal camp.

Another point is that the Old Testament talks about An Eye for an Eye, How many of these cowards would abuse their wives if part of the punishment was that a stronger man was permitted to beat them in the same manner?

If people are defending abusers within the church, then I think that we should be getting advertisments for the Samaritans telephone counselling and similar groups on church notice boards to help those escape the Abuse they are being made to suffer.

Using the Bible to justify that is absolutley sickening.

 

You may see this as defending abusers, but it is not.

 

One thing I did not mention is that I would make an effort to spend time with my kids knowing that I was fighting this battle alone. If there was extended family around that wasn't as screwed up as the wife, perhaps they could help too.

In any case, children are God's not ours. Some are going to heaven and others are not. We shouldn't be arrogant enough to believe that our children must be going to heaven, just as we must not be arrogant enough to believe we must be going to heaven. God has a purpose for every life. Everyone has a part to play. Everything is for the greater glory of God.

 

There are dynamics at play here. Everyone plays a part. If you get the picture from one side, you are getting a very distorted view. The family is a system and each member adds to and is affected by what other members do.

You can play the blame game if you like. It just isn't entirely accurate in many of the situations out there.

Water seeks its own level.

 

I have stayed out of this discussion because I cannot follow the logic that a person should stay in an abusive situation and that God wants us to stay in an abusive situation, but I must comment on the following quote.

I can agree with the last three sentences, but the "just as we must not be arrogant enough to believe we must be going to heaven, I cannot agree with that.

Arrogant I think not. We are humble enough to believe that we are going to heaven. Jesus died for our sins, He was resurrected and He went to prepare a place for us. We must believe and through His grace, we are saved.

It is as simple as John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God."

 

Notice the 'must' in there. We can have confidence, but we can't say we have a perfect view of reality.

 

Dear Eladar,
I want to say that I do agree with what the Bible says about divorce, and it can be a hard road for many people to be in a horrible marriage.
But please don't forget that although none of here and no Christian ever approves of divorce, and we definitely know that it will not solve problems.
In fact many people know people who have remarried a bunch of times, and realized that they married pretty much the same type of people, except their name has changed. And I guess I could give many examples of how sad and unresolved "remarriage" can be for so many people.
I believe the issue here is about remarriage... for Jesus said that about committing adultery.

But when everything is said and done and one looks at the Bible as a whole, we do have grace and mercy, and we are living in a New Covenant.
Please don't forget the grace factor.

Consider the rich young man who went to Jesus and asked what he needed to do to be saved.
Then after that discussion, Jesus said to sell all that he had and come follow HIM. The rich man walked away because he couldn't leave his riches behind, and then they were astonished and asked Jesus, then who can be saved?

Consider what Jesus said. By God all things are possible.
Can we save ourselves? Only Jesus saves.

Really, in matters of divorce, theft, murder, lying, etc. etc., what difference does it make if we sin. Sin is sin. Do you think that one is trapped in marriage even if one is trying to kill the other? If the person allows it and gets murdered, won't even more sin be on another's head?

I know the Bible says that we are sheep for the slaughter, but we don't have to help people to live in their sin of violence. What purpose does it serve?

What does Jesus say to those persecuted?
To flee into another city, yes?

Or what about this...

He who loves much is forgiven much.
He who loves little is forgiven little.

Really, are not people who get mixed up in bad marriages, drugs, drinking, and such, are they not often the people who love much?
Think about it.

Don't sometimes people who love little, risk little?

I hope you are not interpretating that to mean that that is true overall, no, just that I know of many examples of much compassion of people, basically people throwing their pearls before swine in love and paying for it dearly.

Is there no pardon or forgiveness for love?

How many times have you given to a poor person at church and find out that they lied big time? Are you going to keep giving to them, especially when they are not repentive?

What about Jeremiah? God told him that all those who flee into Egypt will die. But Jeremiah prayed for them and went with them into Egypt, knowing full well that he would die.
He didn't have to do what he did, but he loved his people. Now, God made a rule here, but Jeremiah loved his people so much.
So, was God mad at him for disobeying? Hardly.
Jeremiah was a true servant of God because he loved God and loved his people. But to the world he looked like a complete failure, yes?

I hope you know that no Christian applauds divorce or anything that God said not to do.
These are all very serious matters.

But we must never forget that there is no condemnation for those that are in Christ Jesus.
And what does that mean? That we have His Holy Spirit and are following Him, yes?

Well, what is the whole Bible about? Listening to and obeying God's Voice yes?
If the Lord tells one to flee, or to stay, we should obey His Voice.
But if we make a mistake, I believe the Lord will forgive us.

 

You must have missed this post by Elk:

 

Elk,

Yes, sin is sin. Everyone sins. There is no escaping sin as long as we are in these bodies. Yet God's people will not live a lifestyle that is in rebellion to God's commands. By our fruits we are known.

This is why Jesus said it would be better if one did not marry at all. If someone dies, then that person's life is over and if that person was one of God's children, then that person will go to heaven.

Only God knows the answer to that question. What purpose does any life serve? Everything is to God's purpose and to God's glory.

It depends on your definition of love. People who get mixed up in bad marriages can still love. If a person is caught up in an addiction, then such a person is demonstrating a sign of the flesh and therefore probably doesn't demonstrate too much love.

Once again, that all depends on one's definition of love.

Gotta go.

 

Wow I always thought it was better to be unmarried so a person could give all of his attention to serving the Lord.

I also though the definition of love was 1 Corinthians:13

 

Thank you for that Abiyah,

I want to state right here to others that this is not for me. But someone very dear. I don't want anyone to give the wrong impression.

 

I don't know how I managed it, but I seemed to have missed some pages on this topic because I thought it was another topic that is titled similar to this one. I am very sorry. Twisted brain alert. (grin)
I have been thinking a lot about these issues, and it has really helped me to see a new light in what has been mentioned. (I know someone who is considering divorce.) I am thankful to all who helped me to see more clearly. Thank you.

Eladar, it made me so sad to see that you twisted the truth of what Jesus said about 'better not getting married'. I hope that you go back and look it up for yourself.
May I ask you? Are you trying to justify your own personal actions? If so, please know that there is much you can do to become what God has intended for you. You do not have to be in that realm of learned behavior that is passed on from generation to generation. God loves you. Many Christian churches has free counseling of some kind, and you would not believe what a little bit can do for your whole life.
Sometimes, first comes wisdom and knowledge, and then the Lord will heal. God has used this route for me some years ago over some pains of my past, and continues to do so in various other ways, wisdom and knowledge producing understanding and results, and the Lord healing. Only the Lord heals.
I say all that to say that someone who is real dear to me said that people who are responding the way you do, might have the same problem.
If I am wrong, please forgive me.

 

Matthew 19:8-12 He said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery."
The disciples said to Him, "If the relationship of the man with his wife is like this, it is better not to marry."
But He said to them, "Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given.
"For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it."

It seems to me that this passage says it is better to not get married based on the fact that once you marry someone you're stuck with them for the rest of your life or until one of you die.