The Peace Of God That Passes All Understanding

Zoloft does not make one "high."

Quotes from the site cited:

1. "Depression doesn't mean you have a flawed character or aren't strong enough emotionally. It is actually a medical condition like diabetes or arthritis."
2. "Depression can be triggered by things going wrong in your life, but it isn't always. Depression may be associated with a chemical imbalance in your brain."
3. Although the way Zoloft works for depression, panic disorder, OCD, and PTSD is not completely understood, what is understood is that Zoloft is a medicine that helps correct the chemical imbalance of serotonin in the brain. Serotonin is a naturally occurring chemical in the brain that is involved in the transmission of messages between nerve cells.

Grace

 

But that isn't true. They know precisely why some people have diabetes and some don't. The same for arthritis. But they say on the same page you got those quotes from, they don't know why some people are depressed and some aren't.

Did you actually read what you quoted? They don't fully understand how Zoloft works for depression. But they know exactly how insulin works for diabetes and aspirin for arthritis.

The point is, the "chemical imbalance" hypothesis is more myth than science, and folks shouldn't be using it against the ones who are saying that the cause could be spiritual.

 

I dont' recall anyone using the fact of chemical imbalance "against" anyone. And, everyone has said that some depression may be a spiritual problem. However, depression can also be caused by medical diseases, like hypothyroidism, and fibromyalgia and needs to be treated.

Grace

 

Amen, ByGrace!

Until about 50 years ago hypothyroidism
was treated as a personality disorder.
Until about 20 years ago fibromyalgia
was treated as a personality disorder.
As the science of medicine progresses
(lead largely by Christian scientists with
the compassion of Jesus, the Christ),
more and more personality disorders find
understood causes for so called "personality
disorders".

In the Dark Ages everyone understood:
personal behavior problems were caused by
devils; beat the devil out of the person
and they would be cured. But since then
those who found the compassion of Christ,
clearely delineated in the page of God's
written word: the Holy Bible have sought
to releave pain and suffering due to
so called "behavioral disorders".

Jude 20-23 (nKJV):

But you, beloved, building yourselves
up on your most holy faith, praying
in the Holy Spirit,
21 keep yourselves in the love of God,
looking for the mercy of our
Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
22 And on some have compassion,
making a distinction;
23 but others save with fear,
pulling them out of the fire,
hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.

BTW, i might mention in ragards to point
one of the lead post of this topic,
when i had clinical depression3, 32 years ago
I'd not had a TV in my house for over
eight years

Then may the peace of God be unto
all who read this topic, whether or not
you still need to take "pills" or
ever have. Amen.

 

Yes, a lot of things can be triggered by things going wrong in one's life: anger, sadness, rebellion, etc.

My point in this is that many folks are assuming things to be established medical fact that are not.

 

AARON

I have NEVER said that ALL depression is medical. Of course, some of it is spiritual. What I HAVE stated is that no matter what the cause or how I get over it, God is with me and I trust Him to know what I need every minute of my life.

This is part of a post on page 8 of this thread. I listed some additional things that "can" cause depression that came from a medical book, not from an advertisement for Zoloft.

For example, depression CAN be hereditary or even caused by cancer. There were SO many diseases that we know the name of today that they did not KNOW what to call them in biblical times. That doesn't mean they did not exist or weren't real.

Science is advancing every day and GOD is the one who gives man the wisdom to not only identify new diseases; but to discover cures for the old ones.

Blessings to all who are suffering...

Sue

 

God bless you, Sister Sue,
you have spoken wisely and
in accordance with (IAW) this scripture:

Romans 14:19 (nKJV):
Therefore let us pursue the things
which make for peace and the things
by which one may edify another.

 

This will be my last post on this subject. I see this as a discussion board, not mental ward, and the viability of different hypotheses for any subject should be able to be discussed with no worry of offending another's hypersensitivity.

The words "can be caused by" are misleading. The fact is no one can point to a specific medical cause for depression. That is the fact.

To the statement that the Spirit inspired Biblical authors just didn't understand some things: I reject wholesale the idea that the Holy Spirit may have misdiagnosed anything.

[ March 08, 2003, 09:02 AM: Message edited by: Aaron ]

 

Ed. Love rejoices in the truth, and before the truth will build one up, the false assumptions, philosophy and vain deceit of man must be cast down.

I think my motto will be, "casting down imaginations."

 

You are incorrect. There are numerous medical causes for depression. . .and THAT is fact. I've named just two in my previous post: Hypothyroidism and fibromyalgia.

Grace

 

May the peace of God which passes all
understanding be yours, Brother Aaron.
But please don't get the idea that
you understand that which cannot be
understood.

Aaron: "The fact is no one can point to
a specific medical cause for depression. "

Depression and other physical brain problems
are complex and near the limits of what
humans can understand. The peace of God
is beyond human understanding. Some seem
to have overlooked the testimony of three
in this topic that although they were clinically
depressed they had the peace of God.
I have known that myself.

So please, don't anybody have the vain
imagination that while
not understanding the medical cause for
depression, they understand the peace of
God which passes all understanding.


My pastor's life verse is 2 Corinthians 9:8 (KJV1873):
And God is able to make all grace abound
toward you: that ye, always having all
sufficienty in all things, may abound to every
good work.

Yesterday's USA TODAY (07 March 2003)
has a report from Gregory Miller
of Washington University in St. Louis.
People with depression are more likely to
have heart attacks than the non-depressed.
Seems the blood of depressed people contain
elevated levels of interleukin-6
and C-reactive protein. Both chemicals
increase the amount of plaque in the blood
steam, a major risk factor for heart attack.

Aaron: "The fact is no one can point to
a specific medical cause for depression. "

The fact is, no one can point to a specific
medical cause for heart attacks. It is a
complex arena with many causes and interactions.

 

I would just like to point out a couple of things. I have stayed out of this thread the entire time. Most people know where I stand on all of this stuff.

1. If a person is using Scripture alone, and he has developed a theology based solely on that, that should be a good thing.

2. If there is another field of study that Scripture does not discuss extensively, those who are not Scripture-alone should not be so dogmatic that Scripture does not provide the solution.

In other words, this gray area of study might just be the result of issues that Scripture does deal with and so those who are Scripture-alone can offer the solution (and believe it is the only solution at that).

Here is an example:

Child A is depressed. He is doing poorly in school. He doesn't want to eat much. It is getting more severe all the time. He is taken to a doctor that does not know with certainty what the problem is. Now, the parents can choose to get a drug that will help him feel better for a time (which is another discussion all over about the ethics of mind altering drugs), or to examine his life.

They opt to examine his life and this is what they found:

a. He has a hidden stash of porn.
b. He has music from avowed satanists that he has been listening to.
c. He mixes in some experimental sex.
d. The "friends" he has been around can move objects in a room without touching them (sorcery).

All of these issues serve to cause a great amount of guilt in his life. He doesn't want to address it with his parents because of the shame. This serves to heighten the guilt and further the depression.

Now, the only solution for this person is to repent of his sin and wrong thinking, seek forgiveness, and be restored.

The child follows the biblically prescribed manner and the depression is gone. It is replaced with joy and a new found responsibility.

I will further add that since he did the correct method, he will be able to further help those who might be going through similar circumstances.

 

Ed-You are so right! This area of chemical imbalances in relatively new and vastly misunderstood.

My husband had a very severe heart attack and the doctor's put a stint in his artery and proclaimed him okay.

I contradicted them and said he is not okay because he is not talking right, I am his wife and I know how he phrases statements.

Two neurologists were called in and their diagnosis was that he was fine because he could count backwards and even say the alphabet backwards.

I contradicted them too and said, again, he is not okay because he is not talking right, I am his wife and I know how he talks.

I demanded they give him a CAT scan, (thinking he might have a concussion since he hit his head on a cement floor when he fell), they complied.

Guess what they found? The stint they put in would NOT have stopped him from having another heart attack. His arteries were not the problem.

There was a CHEMICAL IMBALANCE in his brain that was sending the wrong signals to his heart. As a result, many apologies were offered and he now has a defribillator installed in his chest and he is taking medication for the chemical imbalance. The medication should keep his heart rate stable; in the event that it does not, the defribillator will bring it back into rythm. (And, once again, he is talking right)!

Chemical imbalances can do so much more harm than we know about. The doctor's are just now becoming aware of a lot of the damaging effects it can have. This incident just happened, with my husband, two years ago and the doctor's did not even THINK to check for a chemical imbalance.

The neurologists remind me of some of the posters on this board..."there is nothing wrong with his brain, there has to be something else wrong".

We are learning more every day. Thank you God for giving men the wisdom to discover new procedures and treatments!

A wife who is glad she kept on keeping on.......


Sue

 

Thank you Brother Preach the Word for your
nice parable. I believe that when the
parents responded in Christ-like love,
compassion, and concern, then the solution
was found. I contend that sometimes
medical assistance is useful in a full
recovery, but the Biblical injunctions to
have compassion and the Jesus example of
compassion is always correct.

Mark 9:17-29 (nKJV):
Then one of the crowd answered and said,
"Teacher, I brought You my son, who has
a mute spirit.
18 And wherever it seizes him, it throws
him down; he foams at the mouth,
gnashes his teeth, and becomes rigid.
So I spoke to Your disciples, that they
should cast it out, but they could not."
19 He answered him and said,
"O faithless generation, how long shall
I be with you? How long shall I bear with you?
Bring him to Me."
20 Then they brought him to Him.
And when he saw Him, immediately the spirit
convulsed him, and he fell on the ground
and wallowed, foaming at the mouth.
21 So He asked his father, "How long has
this been happening to him?" And he said,
"From childhood.
22 And often he has thrown him both into
the fire and into the water to destroy him.
But if You can do anything,
have compassion on us and help us."
23 Jesus said to him, "If you can believe,
24 Immediately the father of the child cried
out and said with tears, "Lord, I believe;
help my unbelief!"
25 When Jesus saw that the people came
running together, He rebuked the unclean spirit,
saying to it, "Deaf and dumb spirit,
I command you, come out of him
and enter him no more!"
26 Then the spirit cried out,
convulsed him greatly, and
came out of him. And he became
as one dead, so that many said, "He is dead."
27 But Jesus took him by the hand and
lifted him up, and he arose.
28 And when He had come into the house,
His disciples asked Him privately,
"Why could we not cast it out?"
29 So He said to them,
"This kind can come out by
nothing but prayer and fasting."

Whose prayer and fasting?
Not the son who was possessed as a child.
Not the father who was showing compassion
for his son. It was the disciples who did
not pray and fast. It was Jesus who was
prayed up and fasted up, ready to save.

Amen, Sister Sue! Thank you for this living
example of the Christ-like compassion for
others. You may have even had to do some
praying and fasting, but your compassion,
like the Entergizer Bunny, kept on and kept on
and kept on. I believe that the requirement is
for us is to do all we can with all the knowledge
we have (and more information never hurts)
to express our Christ-like compassion and love
for those whom we would truly help (as opposed
to those we just say "be healed and on thy way").

 

Aaron and all, there are several causes of depression which are very well understood: hormonal is one. The female hormones in birth control pills and the hormones released right after birth are both known to cause depression. In some cases, deep depression. The answer? If it continues in the case of post-natal depression, help the body come back into balance with chemical intervention. This usually is a very short-term need. In the case of birth control pills or hormone replacement therapy, either stop them altogether or moderate the dose as needed. Understanding that female hormones are not just prescribed for birth control, please understand that there is no sin involved in taking them.
At least I hope not! I had an emergency hysterectomy-appendectomy when I was 30 and have been on premarin .625 (a VERY low dose) for 25 years now. I was started on a higher dose and became both very grouchy and depressed. Moderating the dose (in my case, cutting it in half) resulted in me being me again as well as not needing to deal with what would have essentially been an early and severe menopause.

In the meantime, saying that no one can point to a specific medical cause for depression is approximately like saying no one can point to a specific medical cause for pain. Both statements are correct -- and both are wildly misleading. There is not one cause of either. There are multiple causes of both. Mentally, certainly depression can be the result of ongoing sin in a person's life. No one is disputing that or the cure -- which is repentance and the Lord.

In addition, however, we live in an age of chemicals, anesthetics, hormones, etc. Some types of allergies induce the production of certain chemicals which can result in profound depression! And the person tells his minister who proclaims that he needs to repent and turn to Christ. But no matter how much he repents and clings to the Lord, the depression deepens, or at least continues.

Until he finds out that the poison used by the pesticide man, or the addition of MSG to his favorite foods, or the dander on his pet dog -- or any one of a number of things -- has caused an allergy which has inspired his system to produce responsive chemicals which are throwing him out of whack emotionally as well.

No sin involved. No repentance needed. Removal of the allergen and some antihistamines can work wonders, though, and he will praise God for them!

Preach, your examples happen, but by selecting a few examples you are ignoring so much other stuff. Here is some real life stuff.

Two of my daughter's closest friends come from families where the parents fight consistently. Others of her friends come from divorces in the families, resulting in confusion, resentmen, anger, and such in the parents. These kids have had their foundation in life shaken to the core emotionally. A parent has left, or is always arguing with the other parent.

The kids' reactions? Often a quiet and pervasive depression. Their sin? They need to repent? No. They are reacting to their worlds being torn apart and/or dented and damaged each day. There is nothing they can do to remedy the situation. Nothing they can change.

Can Jesus heal them? Of course He can. But it's going to take a lot of time, and there will be scars. Kids can't go through this without them. And pain is pain, physically or emotionally. But they did not sin in this thing.

And this I will say without reservation: if a teen is close to suicide because of something like this, then for Pete's sake, save his life with chemical intervention if necessary, and THEN lead him or her to the Lord and walk alongside through the crisis and beyond.

I am praying fervently for not only compassion here, but understanding where so many families are concerned. Depression is pain. Find the cause of the pain and then go from there. Don't do the person in your family or who has come to you for help the giant disservice of presuming sin in their lives. Rule out the physical. Rule out chemical/hormonal exposure. Rule out a situation where they are feeling overwhelmed and helpless -- BEFORE you go charging in claiming sin and that repentance is needed.

These people are in deep pain. Don't cause them more.

 

Preach the Lord:

I agree that there are many problems in a child's life, especially teen-agers of today, but most Christian parents will try to find the causes of a child's "depression", behavioral problems, bad attitude, anger, or disobedience before they go running to a doctor. Many times the parents can find the cause and help solve the problems without assistance, but other times, even when the parents know the cause, they may need assistance from counselors, pastors, and doctors....and yes sometimes medicine, but that does not mean that they are not relying on God's grace, word, wisdom, and instruction.

 

Sister Sue,

Praise God that you never gave up, or listened to the nay-sayers. Chemical imbalances cause many physical problems....Thanks for sharing.

In His love,
Grace

 

I am Blessed, thank you for reminding us that sometimes we even have to question the doctor's diagnosis. The reason is usually that they have so many patients that they cannot know each one of them well enough to recognize all symptoms.

 

I thank God every day for Hormone Replacement Therapy. And now I learn that the insurance companies are trying to take it away from those who need it. Well, that's another story.