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Yes, we agree on that. I've always said that anyone who has their faith in the finished work of Christ is saved. No matter what doctrine they believe. God never required correct doctrine for salvation, He requires faith in His Son. So the "saving yourself" thing should be off limits among...

Ken, you shouldn't be stating on these forums that we who chose to believe the Gospel saved our selves. You know that's not true, and it's an insult to the saving Grace of the Father.

That's some of that twisted Reformed Theology that God will judge!

This is so messed up, Ken. When God presented the Gospel to me through another man I believed and repented of my sins. I was granted God's righteousness through my faith, I had nothing to do with my salvation, it was a free gift. You are alleging that I saved myself by obeying God's command...

This would explain your attention to detail in exactly what the Scripture says and doesn't say. I've noticed you pointing out several times the Scripture is not necessarily saying what is believed it to be saying.

This is the way God intended for us to disagree, and in the disagreement let those who are confused have a way to understand.

Well, that was nice and I appreciate that. You believe what you believe, and I have shown you what I believe. As @JonC has so graciously reminded me, those posts are for those who don't know what to believe, let them consider what I've said.

Your thoughts are my thoughts, JonC, I have stated many times on these forums that I'm speaking to those who are not certain what to believe, it's for their benefit. God bless you, JonC, for reminding of that fact!

If you read all those predestination verses in this light, you will see what I'm talking about.

God, before the foundation of the world decided that man would be saved by Grace through faith in the finished work of His Son. That was His plan, and the predestination of all men who will believe. You see, Z, God did not predestinate who would be saved, but how we would be saved.

God has chosen His plan of redemption for all who will be saved. "For God so loved the world that He gave..." That's the predestination, His plan of how man will be conformed to the image of Christ. Not a predestination of who will be saved.

LoL, that's called being zealous for the Word of God, you can't help it, JonC, it's like a hot iron that has branded you in the heart.

It's just a cycle of contradictions with TULIP, but they refuse to acknowledge it. I'm at the point of shaking the dust from my feet with this absurdity.

I would say that Calvinism begins on the right path.

Ok, we see it much differently.

I guess if you consider "I speak by permission and not by commandment" to be inspired then yes, I would agree. I think it really doesn't matter, the apostle Paul was a man of God above all that we can understand.

No, my friend, you are completely missing the point and it's not your fault you have missed this point. John 8 is showing us who has the desire in their hearts for God's truth. The Pharisees certainly did not have this desire and therefore they could not hear the truth, their minds and hearts...

In the discourse of John 8, Christ is teaching the Jews, the Pharisees come on the scene and begin asking questions to mock Him. John 8:47 is directed toward the Pharisees. They could not hear the truth because they had no heart for God, they had perverted the Law to be what they wanted it to...

The contradiction you see and escapes you is the free will God has given us to choose our own destiny. The same free will given to Adam and Eve in the Garden from the very beginning.

The apostle Paul was hand picked by Christ Himself, "a chosen vessel" to take the Gospel of Jesus Christ into Western civilization. No force on earth could stop that. Now that we have that Gospel we are asked to believe without seeing what the great apostle saw, but yet facing the forces of...