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I have been studying theology and church history for nearly five decades, including the Greek fathers and the early church. Nowhere in scripture or the early church is PSA taught or believed. I suggest it is you who needs an education in elementary principles of the atonement as held in...

Doctrinal issues

Is it possible to receive scriptural baptism -- which I believe is baptism of a believer by immersion -- without joining a church? Do you think there are pastors who would do this?

That is not PSA. The early church did not see PSA in those verses. Besides, all atonement theories hold that Christ died for our sins. PSA teaches that Jesus was punished by God in our place and paid the penalty for our sins. That cannot be found anywhere in the NT or the early church.

The Eastern Orthodox Church has never held to PSA or any of the later views. There is a reason for that -- because they were not taught in the NT or early church.

Thank you for your reply. I welcome it, and all replies, even those which disagree strongly with me. I have and shall continue to search the scriptures and interpret them the way the earliest Christians did. The early Fathers did not teach PSA or Satisfaction or any of the atonement views...

Bravo!

This will be a variation on some things I have posted before. It seeks to explore an important question. Before I start, I must say that I often wonder why I continue to stay and post here. I guess I do that because I keep hoping that I might help others and that others might help me. I believe...

Wrong, on both counts. Would you please at least read the article I provided, to see the difference in how a church of the East, the EOC, interprets these things -- the way the earliest Christians interpreted them. They had the same scripture that you do, and yet their beliefs were different...

That does not mean what you interpret it to mean. It does not teach that we inherit sin or guilt. A man cannot be guilty of another man's sin. Until you learn that the early church did not move in the Western mindset, you will not be able to understand or interpret scripture the way the early...

These are the typical Western interpretations of Paul. While I agree that our faith is accounted or credited to us as righteousness, as the scripture plainly says, it does not say that humans are guilty of Adam's sin. That is a wrong conclusion that only Western Christianity could come up with...

Got to get some rest now. Back later, God willing....

Lots of sources, over many years -- many decades actually.

Did you not see where I said I had studied the topic?

I have, but thanks for the suggestion. "Imputation", as Protestants have taught it, is an example of how the West has created "another gospel" based in legalism. The RCC has done the same, though in different ways. I don't want to fight. Have a Happy Thanksgiving.

Well, I apologize. I meant imputation as you described it. I don't think that's what the Bible teaches about imputation. But I can wholeheartedly agree with what you just said above.

I don't see imputation as a doctrine of beauty. To me, it is a horrendous doctrine.

First, I want to say thanks for the participation in my last thread. I'm sorry I had to leave it suddenly. Most of the replies were helpful and encouraging, except from one member, whom I misjudged -- I thought he was a good person. He had helped me previously. Anyway, to kind of pick up where...

PSA: Jesus was tortured, punished, scourged, and killed by God in our place or instead of us, to "pay the penalty" for our "sin debt", as a way to appease the wrath of an angry and vengeful God. NONE of that is found anywhere in scripture. It was made up by Luther and Calvin and is an outgrowth...

Very good post, thank you very much for sharing your thoughts here. This could be a viable option for me.