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Van, may I ask what is your view of the atonement?

What do you mean?

If it turns out I cannot join a Baptist church, I have found somewhere I might be able to land. I have some points of disagreement with them, but that would be true of any church I became a part of. At least they are not Calvinist. I hope they end up having a few churches near me. Global...

I never said that I reject the idea that in some way Christ died for my sins. I don't know why people think I feel that way. My atonement view is ransom/Christus Victor, the view of the early church and the church of the first millennium. I also hold to Recapitulation, also a very early view...

I know what you're saying is true. Also, I no longer think the EOC is the one "true church". If I did, I'd still be a member, although I couldn't attend now because of distance. But I no longer have to worry about that.

It's an undeniable fact of Christian history, a near universal consensus, that PSA and none of the theories developed in the West were present in the early church. I never said nor believed that the fathers' writings are the word of God. What I am saying is that a knowledge of the early church...

Don't you realize that PSA is just an expanded and worse version of the Satisfaction theory invented by the Roman Catholic Anselm? The early church and the EOC never held PSA. Satisfaction theory is the seed and root of PSA, invented 1500 years after Christ by Protestant Reformers who didn't...

Is this a joke?

Orthodox and RCC have little in common. RCC and Protestants have more in common, as I have outlined several times on this forum. Both share a Western, Latin background, mindset, and soteriology. The RCC is the "mother church" of Protestantism; the Orthodox Church is not. So, if anyone holds to...

Here is an article which refutes the claim that any of the early church fathers held to PSA. The article was referred to me by an Anglican friend of mine. It's an excellent article: https://therebelgod.com/AtonementFathersEQ.pdf

Okay, I am through arguing the atonement in this thread, especially with someone who has accused me of being a non-believer. I did not post the thread to argue the atonement. But it does prove that many Christians with a Western mindset are incapable, willfully or not, of reading and...

You don't know what the text says because you cannot or refuse to see it in the context in which it was written -- an Eastern one.

Thank you. I take solace in your post. I am constantly astonished at the ignorance by Western Christians of the atonement view held in the East, in the NT, and in the early church. Yes, I believe I could possibly find common fellowship with certain Mennonite churches, if there were any near...

To the extent that any church does not hold to scripture and the teachings of the early church, that church holds to another Gospel. That is true of much that Protestantism holds. It cannot be stated often enough: Christianity in its origins is an Eastern religion. The early church held...

That is a false charge, and you lay it against not only me but Christians in the first millenium. Just to be crystal clear. BTW, I thought it was not allowed to question one's salvation here.

Then you must believe that the early church and the church of the first millenium were heretical.

Another discussion worth having is the difference in the definition of original sin between the Western and Eastern church. In the West, it is taught that all humans somehow "sinned with Adam". This view is based on Augustine's view of original sin and guilt and an incorrect interpretation of...

Those who contend that it is scriptural have to try to explain why then the early church did not hold it, and why it was unknown in the church for 1500 years. Of course they'll try to contend that the early church did believe it and maybe try to drag in some quotes from early Fathers as supposed...

Look, my purpose in my last two threads is not to argue about the atonement. I am fully convinced beyond any doubt that neither the NT nor the early church teaches PSA or any of the later Western, Latin atonement theories. Anyone who sees PSA or any of the Western theories in the NT are...

atonement doctrine, original sin, character of God, salvation, hell, the human condition