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https://therebelgod.com/AtonementFathersEQ.pdf Claiming to see PSA in the NT and early church, and the Fathers, is akin to claiming to see airplanes in the first millennium.

The reason Westerners see PSA in scripture when it is not there is because they see scripture like Calvin and Luther -- with a Western mindset that is foreign to scripture and the early church. In other words, they are interpreting scripture without the context in which it was written. That's...

I don't see PSA there, and neither did Clement of Rome. Your view is akin to claiming to see airplanes in the first millennium.

What denominations, other than Baptist, are represented on this forum? I know there are a few Roman Catholics. Just curious

Thanks for this.

On the contrary, I understand it perfectly. That's why I reject all the Western theories as incompatible with scripture and the early church. And peace also to you.

Actually, I agree with everything you said. And my theology now has more in common with Anabaptists than Orthodox, except I don't agree with Anabaptists on pacifism and oaths. Maybe I should start my own church and call it the Anabaptist Orthodox Church. :)

That's a thoughtful post, and I appreciate what you wrote. How does it relate to the other MacArthur thread?

Not sure what you're saying. The earliest churches held to NT teachings. PSA was not found in the first 1500 years after Jesus. That makes it a false doctrine. It is not taught in the NT, not believed in first century churches, unknown in churches after that, only invented by Calvin and Luther...

Which specific doctrine/practice?

I don't hold to the Example Theory, either. As to the Governmental Theory, I have studied it. I almost tried to force myself to believe it, as an acceptable alternative to PSA. But in the end I could not. I think it's better than PSA -- I don't see how anything could be worse, but some of it...

If you are set as in concrete in a Western mindset, then that is the lens through which you will interpret scripture, which will not have the meaning which the scriptures had or the early church had. I have stated and given references to how the earliest Christians and Eastern Christians...

I won't remove the post I just made to Revmitchell. I'll leave it as a testament to foolishness. I ask him to forgive me, as I forgive him.

I know.

That's a lie, too. Maybe you'd better find the post they made about it recently. Did you not read it? Or is it more convenient for you to feign forgetfulness? If you despise me so much and distrust me, why do you even bother replying to my posts? I guess a habitual liar just can't quit cold...

The mods/admins dispute your false accusations. Why you attack me and lie about me is the question that needs to be answered. Lying is not a fruit of the Spirit, not God's Spirit anyway.

Actually, the Didache did allow for pouring, as a secondary mode when immersion could not be done. "Now concerning baptism, baptize as follows: after you have reviewed all these things, baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit in running water. But if you have no...

Just my opinion, but I believe they do not need to "get saved". I believe they are already saved. I believe God has mercy on the innocent and graciously saves them -- no ritual needed or required.

Atonement, original sin, God's character, immersion baptism -- to name a few.

I used to be EOC but no longer, the reason being that I find some of their doctrines incompatible with scripture and the earliest churches. However, I do find the EOC, with their Eastern mindset, closer to scripture and the early church than the RCC and Protestantism, on many important...