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I saw the thread about MacArthur and the blood of Christ and wanted to comment on it but could not there. I thought it was important enough to post the following here: I believe this is the danger that happens when the atonement is separated from the incarnation and the resurrection...

Thanks robycop3 and Dave G for your posts.

So you're saying a belief could be/was held and taught in the first century church, but from the year 101 onward it disappeared for 1500 years until miraculously rediscovered by Calvin and Luther. That stretches credulity. I am saying that any doctrine that was truly taught and believed in the...

Anyone know if there are any Methodists or other Wesleyans on here? And while I'm thinking about it, what about Anglicans? Pentecostals? I know we have a few Catholics here.

PSA can't be contained within Ransom/Christus Victor. It can be held alongside it. But it is not scriptural, else the early church would have held it.

Oops, you're right. I'll stop now.

EOC never had pouring or sprinkling. The EOC, being the Greek church, knew how baptism was originally done in the scriptures and so kept that and that alone.

I thought so. But you know Baptists are not the only ones who baptize by immersion only. The Eastern Orthodox Church only baptizes by immersion, even dunking babies! I know that from experience, too. :)

Here is a crucial question I would ask Protestants, particularly those who hold to sola scriptura (I would have a different question for Roman Catholics): How do you justify holding to an interpretation that was not held by the NT-era church, an interpretation that was unknown for the first...

May I ask, what denomination are you?

You have correctly stated the theological and historical facts, from the early church to the Reformation and beyond. It is good and refreshing to see a Baptist post this.

I think this has been a good thread. I have enjoyed reading the responses, even those I disagreed with.

I don't feel comfortable saying where I live. But there are no CBF churches near me, nor American Baptist churches, nor Alliance of Baptists. That last one would be way too liberal for me anyhow.

See, this is the problem in trying to interpret scripture apart from context. You come up with a meaning that was never there, that the authors of the scripture didn't intend and the first readers of it didn't see. So, the question is, if the NT teaches it as you maintain, why didn't the early...

I don't hold to PSA. I don't believe in the "once-saved-always-saved" doctrine. I support women clergy. Maybe some of my other views would be problematic, I'm not sure. But I do hold to what I understand are the "Baptist distinctives".

Thank you for your post. I am not a fan of Calvin or his theology, to put it mildly.

My views are consistent with that. Thank you for answering.

Here are some excellent articles discussing Isaiah 53 and PSA theory. I won't comment on them now, just post the links: Punished “for” or “by” our sins – The Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53 - Santo Calarco The Rebel God: A non-penal understanding of Isaiah 53 Penal Substitutionary Atonement...

Well, I was thinking that if they knew my views on certain things, they might not.

Oh, okay. Thanks.