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  1. M

    An Alternate View (to the Penal Substitution Theory of Atonement

    Well, perhaps I missed them. Perhaps you will repeat them and at the same time give us references so that we can look them up on line. I have previously said that I have read very little of the Institutes. I have read a few of his commentaries and some of his sermons. I never automatically...
  2. M

    1JN.2:2...A.W.Pink

    When John writes 'my liitle children,' surely it is clear that he is writing to believers? When our Lord addresses the scribes and Pharisees as a 'brood of vipers,' surely it is obvious that he is NOT speaking to believers? What the two groups had in common was that, according to Pink, they...
  3. M

    Why Provisionism Is Not Biblical

    I believe that Flowers was on the website when I first joined. He had a nom de plume and I can't remember what it was. I agree that Flowers does seem to be Pelagian.
  4. M

    Thoughts on John 19:30

    [continued from previous post] 5. On the Cross we can see the end of all our sins. ‘And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all’ (Isaiah 53:6). If my iniquities have been laid upon Christ they are no longer on me. To be sure, there is still sin in me for I still carry the relic of my...
  5. M

    Thoughts on John 19:30

    There are seven things that we may see finished, paid, fulfilled or accomplished on the cross. 1. On the cross we may see the fulfilment of all the prophesies which had been written of the Messiah in the Old Testament. He was ‘Despised and rejected of men’ (Isaiah 53:3); ‘Hated without a...
  6. M

    JESUS SUFFERED THE WRATH OF GOD EQUIVALENT OF OUR ETERNAL HELL.

    You have to limit the atonement in some way. If our Lord is a ransom for every single person, why are some not ransomed? If He bought with His life, the 'guy heading for swift destruction,' why do some guys still head there? You are limiting the atonement to those who believe or you are saying...
  7. M

    An Alternate View (to the Penal Substitution Theory of Atonement

    I think you are talking through your hat. I don't think you have ever heard of the Justinian Law Codes, or what they mean. You have not provided a single word from Calvin himself to back up your claim, and even if you did, Penal Substitution doesn't come from Calvin, it comes from the Bible...
  8. M

    An Alternate View (to the Penal Substitution Theory of Atonement

    First of all you need to understand that the Justinian Law Codes were the basis for all legal codes for most, if not all, nation states as they developed over the years. The Emperor Justinian was some sort of Christian and the law codes developed the older Augustinian codes in what Justinian...
  9. M

    An Alternate View (to the Penal Substitution Theory of Atonement

    All this is a question of philosophy. Thank you for laying out yours. But since you have told me what I believe :Roflmao, without ever quoting anything I have posted, why do you need me to comment further? You need to defend your position from Scripture, but that seems to be very difficult for...
  10. M

    An Alternate View (to the Penal Substitution Theory of Atonement

    I have certainly criticized people who quote large portions of Scripture without saying what they think the portions mean, as well as those who keep talking about Scripture without ever quoting it. If you stick to that, you will not go far wrong. Great. Do you mean pagan Roman law or the...
  11. M

    An Alternate View (to the Penal Substitution Theory of Atonement

    You seem to believe that changing your mind makes you clever. It is not necessarily so (Gal. 3:1). Your smugness does you no credit. You are simply ignoring what is in Scripture FYI, I have read very little indeed of Calvin, and what I have read is mostly his sermons (which are excellent...
  12. M

    An Alternate View (to the Penal Substitution Theory of Atonement

    I only just saw this post. What Christians believe is that 'by His wounds we are healed.' I seem to recall reading that in the Bible somewhere. Our sins can be laid upon the Lord Jesus; they can be taken away. Why can they not be transferred? Nonsense! It accomplishes everything. You are...
  13. M

    An Alternate View (to the Penal Substitution Theory of Atonement

    I do not think you will find anyone here who will disagree that the Lord Jesus died for our sins according to the Scriptures. The issue is, what does this statement actually mean? It will be really helpful if you will tell us what you think it means. It bothers me when you do that.
  14. M

    An Alternate View (to the Penal Substitution Theory of Atonement

    I was thinking of Trypho the Jew in his debate with Justin Martyr. He said, " Be assured that all our nation waits for Christ; and we admit that all the Scriptures which you have quoted refer to him. Moreover, I do also admit that the name of Jesus, by which the son of [Nun] was called, has...
  15. M

    An Alternate View (to the Penal Substitution Theory of Atonement

    I think you'll find that the doctrine is Christus Victor, not Christis Victor. I did point out that the claim that Christ died "under the power of Satan" is spurious and cannot be found anywhere in the Bible. It seems to be part of the tradition that you hold. The fact is that you are...
  16. M

    An Alternate View (to the Penal Substitution Theory of Atonement

    I agree that we must be honest. I included in my comment the fact that Christus Victor supporters believe that Christ defeated Satan. But if you believe that Christ suffered the punishment of Satan, you are believing something that is not in the Bible. The Bible makes it clear that it was God...
  17. M

    An Alternate View (to the Penal Substitution Theory of Atonement

    This is not entirely true, is it? Not so log ago on this forum, you mentioned a string of 'guys' who turned out to be Mennonites, and even Menno Simon himself, despite his shakiness on the Trinity.
  18. M

    An Alternate View (to the Penal Substitution Theory of Atonement

    This is exactly right. The Christus Victor theory is correct as far as it goes. Who believes in Christus Loser? But it cannot explain how God can be just in justifying sinners. It is incomplete without the Doctrine of Penal Substitution. So the Biblical position is to agree that Christ did...
  19. M

    The Enemies Of The Cross of Christ:

    Yes they do! Because you are too blind to see it does not mean that no one else can.
  20. M

    The Enemies Of The Cross of Christ:

    I have no time to write as much as I would wish. If it is @JonC's purpose to avalaunch me with posts, he is succeeding. However, I will quickly respond to this: You mean like, quoting the Bible. Well yes, I do that. Guilty as charged. Surprise, surprise! You mean apart from Romans 3:25-26...
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