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No - flawed, sinful MEN splintered Christ's Church which continues to splinter to this day to the tune of tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering sects that ALL teach different doctrines yet ALL claim to have the "truth". Some Protestant denominations believe in baptismal...

It's not "eisegesis" just because the word "Baptism" is not explicitly used. This is a junior Bible student mistake. Doctrine comes to us from Scripture in Explicit and Implicit textual content. For example - NOWHERE is there ANY mention of the Trinity, yet, the context of the teaching is...

As for "following the devil" - there is NOTHING that pleased Satan more that the perpetual-splintering that is the tens of thousands of disjointed Protestant sects that ALL teach different doctrines yet ALL claim to have been "led" by the Holy Spirit. What a mess . . .

The first 3 chapters of John's Gospel are literally DRENCHED in the transforming waters of Baptism. Chapter 1 Jesus is Baptized - and what do we see?? WATER and SPIRIT. Chapter 2 The Wedding at Cana, Jesus transforms WATER into wine in His first recorded miracle. Chapter 3 Jesus answers...

First of all - it's not "my" pattern - but that of Christ's 2000 year-old Church that I am simply parroting. This has been the constant, living teaching of His Church since the Apostles. YOUR views on Baptism were only invented after the 16th century. YOU are the one who is forcing your...

Jesus made clear that Baptism is necessary for salvation (John 3:5, Mark 16:16). It is the normative means - bu t God can and DOES make exceptions, like the Thief on the Cross. He would have been baptized before he died, had he the opportunity,

Your Scriptural acrobatics aside - that's NOT what the text says. It says, "Repent AND be Baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." WATER and SPIRIT - just like John 3:5.

Muslims don't die professing Christ.

WRONG. The Mosaic prohibitions on contacting the dead were against seeking oracles (gleaning information) from the dead. If talking to the dead was sinful - then Christ sinned for talking to Moses during the Transfiguration.

Time to put your LIES about St. John Chrysostom to rest. He believed in the CATHOLIC position on Baptismal Regeneration and the CATHOLIC position on John 3:5 – as well as MANY other Biblical texts. Here now is a LONG list of writings on the subject . . . St. John Chrysostom (347-407), bishop...

Ummmmmm, first of all - I DEBUNKED David's "quotes" and showed that these 2 Early Fathers AGREED with the Church on John 3:5. ALSO - I named several Pre-Nicene Fathers so your argument about the "state Church" goes right out the window . . .

Uhhhh, what are YOU reading?? He says LOUD and clear: Remove yourself from that which is common and familiar; a different kind of childbirth bring I into the world; in another manner will I have men to be generated: I have come to bring a new manner of Creation. I formed (man) of earth and...

Uhhhhhhh, that's why the Early Church was UNANIMOUS in its belief in the Real Presence and the Eucharist - and willingly went to a martyr's death for it . . . Ignatius of Antioch Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how...

No - YOU took home out of context like you did with John Chrysostom because you are dishonest . . .

WRONG Here is an excerpt pf one of his homilies on this VERY verse . . . Yet even thus Nicodemus did not understand. Nothing is worse than to commit spiritual things to argument; it was this that would not allow him to suppose anything sublime and great. This is why we are called faithful, that...

WRONG. Ambrose The Church was redeemed at the price of Christ's blood. Jew or Greek, it makes no difference; but if he has believed, he must circumcise himself from his sins [in baptism (Col. 2:11-12)] so that he can be saved . . . for no one ascends into the kingdom of heaven except through...

1 Pet. 3:21 is about the WATER that Noah was saved through. It says: and THIS WATER SYMBOLIZES BAPTISM THAT NOW SAVES YOU also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, Don't you READ the Bible??

There is no quote from an Early Church Father in post #8. Just your bad interpretation of John 3:5. I asked for QUOTES from the Early Church Fathers . . .

The Bible states explicitly that Baptism saves us: 1 Pet. 3:21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Acts 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be...

Every Early Church Father who wrote on the subject UNANIMOUSLY believed that John 3:5 was about Baptism. Show me ONE Early Church writing to the contrary . . .