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Israel, were referred to as the elect nation of God, which undoubtedly meant that the Special Revelation of God went to THEM. Even Calvinistic scholars affirm this. So, why would that change? What else would Israel be cut off from if not for the special revelation? Why else who you...

That clears it all up....wow You'd have to be a lawyer to remain a Calvinist.

You like pronouns, from what I remember in the other discussion. Can you tell us what the underlined pronouns refer to in the above section...

I understand what you are saying, and I don't disagree. Heat can soften butter and harden clay. I get your point. You are inferring that the nature of man is either like clay which hardens in the light or butter which melts in the light...its a matter of how it is made, not the revelation...

That's right. If the agent is choosing which desire to act upon then that is an example of Contra-Causal choice. The desire isn't determining the choice, the agent is determining which desire he will fulfill by choosing his action. He is able to refrain or not refrain from any given moral...

This sentence cannot be overstated. If people can just come to understand this basic truth of the text it really helps bring clarity to so many other issues. Asking for forgiveness doesn't merit being forgiven. Even those who beg to be forgiven in complete humility deserve HELL. It's only...

I agree, this is a quandary, so why not appeal to mystery rather than theorize a system by which God is causing the desires of Dahmers to molest, Hitlers to build gas chambers, and Osamas to blow up buildings? Additionally, I think your question actually needs to go one step deeper. Can men...

I never claimed that it did represent losing personal salvation. I have always argued that it is about revelation which enables salvation, not salvation itself. Those "grafted in" are seeing, hearing and understanding so that they MIGHT turn and be reconciled to God (as scripture states...

So, not all men are bound over to disobedience? Because anyone reading this structure would certainly conclude that the same 'all' being cut off are the same 'all' being shown mercy. You would have us believe Paul actually meant, "God has bound every individual over to disobedience so as to...

I never denied this has an individual application. If a nation of individuals is blinded, then individuals in that nation would be blinded. But the point is that those individuals being blinded MIGHT be provoked to envy and saved, so they cannot be representative of the individual non-elect...

Pharaoh was long since dead at that time obviously. I was talking about the Israelites being hardened at that time, in a similar way that Pharaoh was. Pharaoh was a foreshadowing of them because God blinded him from the obvious truth to accomplish the first passover, in the same way that he...

Ok, we're done. Blessings.

God blinded Pharaoh in his rebellion so as to ensure the first passover, likewise he blinded Israel in their rebellion so as to ensure the second Passover. But, as Paul explains, Israel has not stumbled beyond recovery and as the Gentiles are grafted in they will provoke the Jews to envy so...

Funny how those same individuals being hardened are brought up again just a chapter later as 'not stumbling beyond recovery,' and 'being provoked to envy so that they MIGHT be saved.' God bound them all over to disobedience so as to have mercy on them all.

How is a someone created by God to be a free moral agent, an uncaused causer? God created Him with that ability so he isn't uncaused...his choices are uncaused by God, the choices are caused by the chooser of those choices. And I have a problem with you assuming God can't create other...

We don't make decisions or choices in your system, Luke..only God does...and actually He doesn't even make choices according to you because it doesn't logically fit your deterministic worldview. Just because you call someone responsible doesn't make them responsible. You might believe God...

Ok, then let's stick with this. So, you affirm that God could have chosen not to show mercy to Paul (for example)? He was 'free' to refrain from showing mercy? Isn't that contra-causal freedom? Is that logically possible in your mind for God to be free to refrain or not refrain from that...

No, I want you to prove biblically that being responsible to make your own decisions is an incommunicable attribute of God. Just surprised you aren't interpreting that to mean we think we are EXACTLY LIKE God, or something...because you do have a tendency to overstate your opponents claim in...

Correct. And by what means does He draw them? "15 Then He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." Mark 16:15-16 After He was RAISED up he sent the...

I didn't mean new to you Winman, I meant new to the world...as if you discovered a brand new meaning. That in itself should be a HUGE red flag to you that you just may be wrong. Think about it, that is all I'm saying...