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Meh.... Yeah, but, there's already a word for that usually it's "Amyraldian".... and so, your example doesn't hold together perfectly, but, I think I see your point :) I'd agree with this. Here, you're losing me, because I don't think infants have a preference one way or the other. Perhaps...

RsR shut down the thread dealing with this, but, I thought Jon needed and deserved a response: O.K. Forgive me then, if you are not a 5-point Calvinist.... I was under the impression that you were. If you are, I think my critique holds... If you are not, than I was making assumptions without...

I assure you... I don't agree with you one whit. I agree with you on no account. Other than that we are agreed that Jesus Christ came to die for sinners and that he was the God-man who saves us by his death and bodily resurrection. And that he lives to judge the quick and the dead at the day...

No I don't.... Not if they ARE lying anyway... In your case: You are either: 1.)lying or 2.) So ridiculously unaware of the content of your own world-view that you don't understand the ramifications of it. You ABSOLUTELY are either one or the other in that application. You either were lying...

YES,.......They absolutely DO..... At least in your Theological construct. Mankind suffers an irreparable damage and constitutional aleteration which makes him eternally and naturally hateful to God because of Adam's sin.... So, you are making a distiction between: "being cursed" and "living...

That's true...all mankind is "under the curse"...but, is "the curse"... that all persons born of man are condemned by God? Or, is the curse exactly what Genesis spoke of... Namely, that man would have to till the ground, and that the woman would have multiple pain in child-bearing.... Something...

Oh, please, do tell... Yes....that's obvious. And................. That's a meaningless cacophony of words: "implicit towards our relationship with God"... Read that, and make sense of it: "Implicit towards our relationship with God". Yes, folks, that's the key difference between the "moral"...

Firstly...what is the difference between a "moral" and a "spiritual" nature... It sounds to me like he's being uneccesarily verbose without meaning. Have no idea what that means. I couldn't imagine what the difference is between "degree" vs. "extent" This sounds like the same thing. It is...

YES IT DOES! You responded to this statement by Agent 47: That's exactly what "Total Depravity" means.... He is absolutely right..... A "Totally Depraved" person is incapable of acknowledging their sin and seeking deliverance from Christ alone. That's absolutely what you believe... It's...

I didn't mean to.... I really thought you were saying something rather strange, and should have known you weren't being absurd. I actually thought about what you said later, and I'm guessing you were referring to sanctification, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit being an active force in the...

So, you sin after conversion because you dislike it? Is that what happens? So, prior to conversion, you sin because not only is a facet of necessity but, also because you like it....but... After conversion, when you have the option to do evil you do so because it's something you DISLIKE doing...

So...To be clear then: Before conversion, all persons are "forced" to sin? That's your claim?

You kept making a distinction, Jon, about saved and unsaved persons... And, their ability to either sin, or not sin.... You would insist that the un-saved are naturally incapable of not-sinning, and yet you balk at thinking the saved can be sinless... What do you want to do? 1.) Accept...

Do you insist that a saved person can live sinlessly? Do you agree with John Wesley that a person saved should and absolutely can live without sin?

But...you still are incapable of living without sin right? Why is that?

Also.... You seem (unless I'm mistaken) to still hold some weird necessity of sinning even after one is converted... How the heck does that work? Or, more succinctly... Since you seem to hold that man's constitution is so radically changed post-conversion... Is there a Necessity to sin? Why...

In Theory............... In Theory, you could also have won the lottery jackpot 100 times in a row consecutively couldn't you???? So, what's wrong with you? Isn't it mathematically possible? Do you suffer from Adam's "Original Lottery Failure"..... Maybe the fact is, you just didn't so...you...

No, you're not being patient....you're being angry and indignant actually. You didn't ask that before....but that's what a "succinct" question is... but here goes: So, what if you died at the age of 6 months???? I would say...yes...you could. There aren't a lot of opportunities for a baby to...

Sure, why not... A lot of people, quite often, even you, pre-conversion are given the choice in any given circumstance either to obey or disobey the Law of God. Quite often the unconverted choose not to sin. Happens all the time. I actually said that already. Many unsaved persons have been...

Just ask one succinct answerable question... Just one ask it. And, you've asked several already. I'm really really really not trying to obfuscate John, I'm really not. I'm pretty clear about what I believe.