I'm sorry, I don't know what you are asking. You have to be more specific.
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Semi-Calvinism
- Thread starter Revmitchell
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If you don't believe we inherited sin nature, why is it that we sin? Can we not sin without being born again?
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When does God see us as being lost in sin? When born, or not until knowingly doing sins?
It does seem tht if we do not hold to original sin, that Jesus was just like you and me, and he just choose never to sin, not tht always had a true sinless nture!
BINGO!
1Jo 4:2
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jo 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
Heb 4:15
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Original Sin, and Calvinism states that the "flesh" is inherently and irrevocably cursed with SIN.
Therefore, it denies that Christ had the same flesh as we.....effectively taking away Christ's humanity.
The great heresy of this age isn't denying Christ's Divinity...it's denying his HUMANITY.
We don't battle against Arianism today....we Battle against Docetism.
Calvinism amounts to Docetism. I.M.O.
If human flesh is inherently and irrevocably cursed with sin...than Christ either:
1.) Didn't come in human flesh, and wasn't a human
or
2.) Human flesh isn't inherently sinful by nature.
Do with that what you want, but you have to answer it.
I've made my decision..............reject the idea that human flesh is by nature inherently sinful and irrevocably wicked, and again....Christian Theology becomes much more simple.
Many people who are not saved, in any given situation when they are able to sin or not sin, steal or not steal, smack their wife or not smack their wife.....be nasty or curb their tongue...often choose the right thing.
Choosing to do right isn't sinning.
Unsaved persons choose not to sin when the option is available to sin
......all.............the ..........frikking..........time........
You're not answering my question. Is it within us to continue a life time without sinning?
Jesus ist the second Adam, had SAME humaity as Adam had before the Fall, perfect and sinless, none of us can claim tha since the Fall!
Christiaity has Jesus being fully God and Fully man, and is humanity was from te Holy Spirit conceivng Him in Mary, superntural birth, so sinless nature.
IF he wasjust likeus in all things, than we too could kee the Law perfectly, just amatter of choose, so why need the Cross?
Yes.
That's not what the Bible says.
The Bible says he was human...100% human, just like we are, and was tempted....just like we are.
You want him to have a nature that we don't share.
A form of sinless flesh we don't have...That isn't what the Bible says:
The Bible says he was tempted just as WE ARE...not like some ethereal sinless Adam....and I quote:
Heb 4:15
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
That isn't what the Bible says, it's a construct you've created separating Christ's humanity from ours in some way which makes him different from us, sharing a flesh which isn't ours, and therefore not being human like us, and not suffering temptation like us.
It's Docetism.
It's Calvinism
and it's a heresy like any other heresy
and it denies Christ's humanity.
It's as wrong as denying his Divinity.
Than neither can Christ.
Either he was a human or he wasn't.
You deny his humanity.
It's heresy, it's Docetism...it's the heresy of the modern age.
.
Sure.........
Just like any human right?
,
We CAN
The Bible says we can.
Because we DIDN'T.......and we DON'T, yet he loves us anyways.
It's so simple:
It's so really really really
really really........
simple.
Get rid of Non-passe-non-peccarre (Manicheanism) or "Original Sin"....
And it's preposterously simple. And totally coherent.
We were all in the judgement of God against Adam, so all spiritually died, born now as sinners, and just as those in Adam are found dead in sins, those now in Christ are alive!
Sin is not a virus bug, but ios a result of being found guilty by God in Adam!
Arminuis was not sure...
I want to answer your question, and I will....I've no problem with it.....
But, I need you to ask a question which has no presuppositional content attached.
Your first question was this:
That question implies something I deny....
Namely, that there IS a "WHY" to a person sinning, or, put differently, I don't think there is a pre-existing set of conditions which act as sufficient guarantors to cause a person to sin.
Your question implies that, and is asked in a way which makes me give you a set of factors which explains "WHY" a person does such a thing....
The only answer I can give is something like:
I dunno....they just did
I'm not being obtuse, and I'm not refusing to answer...but your question belies a presupposition I don't hold, namely that there IS a "WHY"....
For you, it's simple...
It's their "Sin Nature"...(Original Sin)...nice and clean.
For me, it's like...."I dunno....they're stupid?"
Because I don't think there are conditions like "Original Sin" which are a sufficient causal factor............I truly CAN'T answer "WHY" because I don't know, and my Theology means there ISN'T a "WHY".
My "Why" is...."because they chose to."
I hope you understand.
I'll reply to this one, it's a different one, not the first you asked but:
YES.
If the Holy Spirit indwells us, why not?
With God all things are possible, why can't a saved indwelled person continue without sin?
If someone is saved on their "death-bed" as it were, and simply has little to no time to make any poor decisions, or willfully sin, could they not live sinlessly after their conversion?...
Could not the thief on the cross have possibly accomplished this Brobdingnagian feat? What if he died like 35-40 minutes after his conversion?
What, exactly is the beef?
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Here's a better question John:
Please name any one circumstance you know of, post salvation, that you were the subject of, in which you were given the option to either disobey God, or not to disobey God, and you had no ability whatsoever to do the right thing and therefore sinned by necessity.......
Go:..............
Please name any one circumstance you know of, post salvation, that you were the subject of, in which you were given the option to either disobey God, or not to disobey God, and you had no ability whatsoever to do the right thing and therefore sinned by necessity.......
Go:..............
I'd challenge any Calvinist to answer me that one...
Any one time after salvation you were set before you the option to either choose right or wrong, to sin, or not to sin, and you had no ability whatsoever to choose to do right, and you sinned without the capacity to do otherwise.
And then you guys have the effrontery to act indignant when someone suggests that someone COULD choose to live sinlessy?
Of course they can.
That, or you can point to a time in which you had no available option but to do wrong.
Any one time after salvation you were set before you the option to either choose right or wrong, to sin, or not to sin, and you had no ability whatsoever to choose to do right, and you sinned without the capacity to do otherwise.
And then you guys have the effrontery to act indignant when someone suggests that someone COULD choose to live sinlessy?
Of course they can.
That, or you can point to a time in which you had no available option but to do wrong.
Then, Christ was born a sinner......or he wasn't a human and you deny that he was a human.
Please find the Scripture which teaches Christ was not a Son of Adam.
Jesus was a man. A human.
A Son of Adam.
Christ wasn't "In Christ" ....he actually WAS the Christ.
He was also a man..
born of Adam.
I know...
But your Theology teaches that is was a virus-bug that all humans somehow inherit (from Adam) and Christ therefore, must have escaped it somehow...
It means he wasn't a human like us
It means he wasn't tempted like as we
I means he wasn't an "actual" Son of Adam...but just looked like it or something.
It means he wasn't the "Son of Man".
It's Docetism
It's Heresy.
It claims Jesus was not a Son of Adam...that Jesus didn't know what he meant when he called himself the "Son of Man.
It makes Christ everything cool and everything Divine and everything awesome-sauce............but, not a human.
Then Christ was not a "Son of Man" as he claimed and not a human as he claimed.
You're a Docetist.
You deny Christ came in the flesh, I get it.
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Just ask one succinct answerable question...
Just one ask it.
And, you've asked several already.
I'm really really really not trying to obfuscate John, I'm really not. I'm pretty clear about what I believe.
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I asked it up thread, Can we "not sin" before being born again?
Sure, why not...
A lot of people, quite often, even you, pre-conversion are given the choice in any given circumstance either to obey or disobey the Law of God.
Quite often the unconverted choose not to sin.
Happens all the time.
I actually said that already.
Many unsaved persons have been confronted with the option at Wal-Mart wherein the cashier gives them more of a return $20.00 ,more than they owed...that person is given the option then to either steal or not to steal, be honest or not.........
More often than not, they will choose NOT to steal, and make square the funds.
That happens all the time.
That's a pre-converted (or perhaps never converted) person choosing to do that which is right in God's eyes and not actually disobeying his commandments....or, in sexier parlance "sinning"....
Un-converted persons, given the choice, elect to obey God's laws or not, often choose not to actually sin. Happens every day.
This is so uncomplicated it's preposterous.
What they don't do....is always keep God's law perfectly.
That's why they need the Saviour....not because of the Adam-daddy disease.
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