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And? Will that save their souls? Will the fact that they didn't commit a 'evil' deed get them to heaven? Will they attain righteousness by the merit of their lack of 'evil' doing? Will they, the babies, attain righteousness through the law based approach? They are not condemned under grace...

I didn't provide you an interpretation, just a verbatim quote...it seemed to be the quote you were having trouble with. Ok, I think I see the problem. There are two different forms of Righteousness addressed by Paul. 1. Righteousness by Law/works/merit (unattainable) 2...

Winman, also, it needs to be noted that while we are born condemned in accordance with the demands of the law: Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. 10 As it is written: “There is no one righteous (not even babies), not even one; 11 there is no one who understands...

Winman, I didn't even mention Original sin. I just quoted Paul verbatim... I said, "One trespass resulted in condemnation for all people. God bound all men over to disobedience." Read it again..."one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people." Those are Paul's exact words in Romans...

Winman, one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people. God bound all men over to disobedience. This truth cannot be denied and it doesn't need to be to maintain human responsibility.

Right, because if more was needed then everyone who doesn't accept scripture would have a perfect excuse for their rebellion against the scripture. They could rightly say to God, "I didn't accept and follow your truth because you withheld all that was needed for me to do so."

JonC, it does not appear we have any point of disagreement, at least as far as this last post is concerned. :)

True, and really, the inspiration of scripture is "magical and mystical" enough as it is, do we really need to add to that a irresistible inward zapping of the human will that scripture never once expounds upon?

Cals often reference Cor 2:14 to insist that mankind needs spiritual discernment to understand the things of God, right? Is not the very letter Paul is writing a discernment of the Spirit for the Corinthian church? Isn't Paul, by writing out the spiritually inspired truth, explaining the...

Why not? We answer atheist with "he just is" ... he answers with "I am that I am." Why can't we just say it is what it is because he created it that way? You do know both of our views are THEORIES, right? Its not as if you have some higher moral ground on which to stand with your...

Question begging A-G-A-I-N... the very point up for debate is whether or not God is able to create people with the ability to make independent choices and you are PRESUMING that this attribute can only belong to God. I'm arguing that God is able to create us to be independent/responsible in our...

I'm not seeing this distinction being addressed in this thread. I could have missed it but I don't think so.

Arminians (no "e") historically along with Calvinists fall within the Western approach of interpreting this issue individualistically, rather than corporately. (at least its the most noted version from the Wesleyan perspective) For example, each read these phrase a bit differently: "I praise...

This right here sums up why I became a Calvinist and remained one for about a decade. I thought these were my two options. Who wouldn't you choose Calvinism if you believe these are your only two options? If you have not fully vetted the much more scholarly, widely accepted, and biblically...

Considering that both are the WORD...the gospel being the good news of Jesus, I still don't see how any one could conclude one wasn't related to the other.

The term “double predestination” simply means that, just as God predestines some, but not all, to eternal salvation, so he predestines others to eternal punishment; this second part of “double” predestination, God's appointment of all but the elect unto eternal destruction, is sometimes called...

Do the Calvinistic believers who frequent this forum affirm Double Predestination? I know many Calvinists denounce the reprobation concept of Double predestination, but didn't know what most of you believed in this regard...

I believe we would all agree that we choose in accordance with our nature, the question is whether our nature is 'contra-causally free' to choose from among available options (options which all would be within the scope of the nature from which to choose.) In other words, its one thing to say...

The verse just says that they didn't comprehend it. So, what would they need if they didn't understand it? They need more revelation. They need more understanding. They need someone to explain it to them clearly. So, what does God do? He sends his Son, the WORD. He sends Apostles...

Looking at another passage which addresses the same subject (of light being shown in the darkness) to better understand and thus interpret the text is called "Hermeneutics" and to label that as being off topic, or not in response to the OP, is shortsighted, at best.