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One other point... Go read some of Arminius' works...he sounds Reformed in the most Calvinistic sense of the word. In fact, most Calvinists today would probably love 95% of what he wrote. He wasn't some Joel Osteen sounding namby pamby feel good preacher that most equate to 'arminian'...

10% is some, thus the point is made. Even still, the driving issue was not the this specific soteriological difference. Cals and Arms would have been seen much closer to each other at that time. That was not the point of the divide, though you may be correct that the major players tended to...

Whats interesting about this statement is that it is kind of written like the Baptist Faith and Message is now. It is vague enough for either group to affirm it depending on how one understands/interprets the words. For example, the phrase, "to deliver from curse and damnation those whom he...

I have no idea. :confused: I didn't know many did deny this... My understanding is that the REFORMATION was against the abuses and some doctrinal issues within the Catholic church. Both Calvinistic and non-Calvinistic believers were among those who joined that movement of reforming the...

Olsen argues, "Arminian theology does not deny justification by grace through faith alone. The chapter subtitle is 'Classical Arminian theology is a Reformation theology.' It embraces divine imputation of righteousness by God's grace through faith alone and preserves the distinction between...

I'm glad you asked. Actually I don't. I know its a common label so I used it here just to avoid using the word Calvinism repeatedly in the same sentence. But actually I agree with Roger Olsen's argument about how 'reformed' is a larger more encompassing label that would include non-cals.

Typically the term 'hyper-calvinism' is used in reference to those who don't believe evangelism is really necessary due to the inevitability of the elect being saved. As Herald rightly explained, some do throw this label around against anyone more 'Calvinistic' than they are. But, a strong...

Election in Christ is primarily corporate, i.e., an election of a people (Eph 1:4-5, 7, 9). The elect are called “the body of Christ” (4:12), “my church” (Mt 16:18), “a people belonging to God” (1 Pe 2:9), and the “bride” of Christ (Rev 19:7). Therefore, election is corporate and embraces...

I'm the one arguing for 'friends,' so I'll allow someone else to answer...

I take that back...I can see if people take 'slave' to mean 'bond servant' (volunteering to follow him) how they may vote that way. That question can be deceiving, but I think it is important to draw the distinction, after all Christ did.

What amazes me is that over 80% of the participants here still think of themselves as slaves of God despite the clear teachings of scripture which indicate that is not what God desires from our relationship with Him.

Yes, and John 17 is another great example of God choosing individuals for the good of many others... 20 "My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they...

Oh my...:tear: I no longer call you servants, because a servant [slave] does not know his master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. -Jesus For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to...

P4T, sorry you feel that way and forgive me if I have offended you. Now, can we debate the topic of the thread...specifically the last point that was made?

Again, you are reading a motive into my words. I was simply pointing out the purpose of this forum so as to help people understand the difference between a perceived 'attack' and an honest debate of the issues (as those can be confused in the written forum). I think if you read back through my...

If you click on User CP in the tool bar at the top left of your page, then choose "Edit Options" and then scroll down to "Thread Display Option" and take it off of 'forum default' and select the one you want...then save changes at the bottom. This will make it permanent.

Ok, now we are getting somewhere. We have an accusation of a faulty premise and a straw man argument. A faulty premise is a false or unfounded foundation conclusion. Maybe you can quote that 'faulty premise' for us and make your case? A 'straw man argument' is a debate fallacy where one...

Allow me to restate the point that IMO is the most important one of this thread... Calvinists take analogies, such as noble vs. ignoble vessels (i.e. Rm 9), and applies them to their dogma that mankind has NOTHING to do with which vessel they will become. The passage above CLEARLY...

At the top of this page you will see that this is a DEBATE forum. Its very purpose is to DEBATE by forming arguments supporting your view of soteriology and denouncing the opposing views. This can be done without making speculations about the character of other posters by implying impure...

Great article. I found no 'differences' with this scholar on his and my 'doctrine of election.' Maybe I wrote something that appeared to contradict this, but I don't think so?