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I don't consider judgement as God making someone sin. I regard it as a punishment. That's a punishment, not a sin.

Yeshua, I ask again, what do YOU believe? Do you belive in God's COMPLETE sovereignty? If so, you believe he controls everyone's actions, which includes EVIL acts. State your beliefs and then we'll talk more.

The FACT of the matter is. Calvinists believe God is entirely sovereign right? okay So that means He is sovereign and makes sin happen which is FALSE. Man commits sin, via free will, and God can make that sin be used for good in His infinite wisdom and power. Yet another mystery of God we...

Saying that God draws them, means that God Himself controls the actions of said believer. Thus, not giving them a choice in the matter. Yes, it IS forcing. That is what this Calvinism promotes and it is wrong.

Glad you agree it is false doctrine. I agree too! I just wanted to point out that there is calvanists who believe this and I wanted to see if anyone else held these same beliefs. But I guess ya'll are the less radical Calvinists here . :Biggrin

OK Here's your proof: ulrich zwingli and (behold) john calvin: R.V Sproul: Here's the book if you can view it: (I don't know, you might have to be a student where I am to view it) Shibboleth Authentication Request

LOOK UP THE BOOK AND READ IT FOR YOURSELF. If you care that much, you will look it up. I can't copy/paste (truly I can't!) because it won't let me. And I don't feel like I ought to re-write it here. It's there, you can either go look it up or call me a liar. Whatever you want. I don't care, and...

I PROMISE you, the author gave factual proof of an ACTUAL Calvinist that said those things, believing God makes people sin. You might not believe that (and thank God!) but you do believe in a false doctrine and I will never not point out that falseness because it is what my God compels me to do...

and there isn't 'MY/OUR/YOUR RULES'. There is only GOD'S WORD and He has the authority here. not me, not you.

I trust in a holy/good God that chooses to save those who believe upon His son, with no deserving it on my (or any free-willers) part. I don't have personal holiness, that isn't what saved me, Christ saved me because I chose to believe upon His word. You're just putting words into my mouth, and...

I'm not a fool, since I post truthful/factual statements and it's not my fault you don't like to be pointed out to the folly of your doctrine(s). No, Roger Olsen is not a Calvinist, he is rebuking Calvinism. Why would I read something a Calvinist wrote? I've got the basic gist of your believes...

Look up the book yourself and read it. I have access to it via my online school. I gave the name and author. But some of those authors you just stated had some quotes in there that stated the OP above. I can't copy/paste but if you can't take a fellow Christian's word for it, then oh well...

Who said you can be saved without Christ? Christ saves you, but you have to accept Him. Duh :P

and I know Calvinism is a false doctrine, stating that God forces man to choose whether he believes upon His son or not. (which is ridiculous) Is THAT what you believe? Because if so, it is wrong and I heavily rebuke it.

You shouldn't mock period. And the Bible says not to tease either. What does the proverb say? “Like a madman who throws firebrands, arrows, and death, is the man who deceives his neighbor, and says, 'I was only joking! (Proverbs 26:18-19) I read who I choose to read, I don't want to waste time...

LOL I say again, I am taking all this from OTHER professed Calvinist teachers!!! It's not my fault you choose to ignore them, and if you do, I guess great, since you don't believe, but I"m sure there are SOME Calvinists who believe what I just posted which is in fact, factual, by other factual...

LOL! These are what your proclaimed Calvinists teach and believe! I'm going off what THEY have to say about it. What do YOU have to say in their defense or rebuttal, hm? And I Never said personal holiness/good works/sinless perfection gets you to heaven. DUMB! Grace given by God in the person...

Why are you mocking me when I am indeed not a Calvinist, but who promotes free will choice to all man kind. Why can't you believe that God still makes it all work for the good of those who love Him? Isn't that what the scripture even STATES? And we know that all things work together for good to...

Definitely not the first choice. God gave Man FREE WILL to sin or to not. God CAN stop it, but he allows it to happen to make men accountable for their actions. And definitely not the second, because God makes no mistakes. But God, in His sovereign glory, can make all things, bad and good...

Okay, then what does God DO in your eyes Yeshua? Because previously you told me that God chooses who is saved and who is not. So what's stopping you to say God chooses to make men sin or not? What do you believe? I'd like to know.