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I don't think you have to see the word wrath dave, but the point is what He did suffer and endure for the sins of the elect satisfied God's wrath towards them ,they don't have to face wrath which otherwise they would. You do believe those Christ did not die for will suffer God's wrath right...

In essence Jn 6:44,65 are saying no man can believe in Christ for Salvation unless its[belief] is given. Jn 6:65 65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. Phil 1:29 29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ...

Not all men exist in the grace of God from the day of their birth, just God's elect the election of Grace. See the real teaching of Grace is that it's always only for a remnant you know what a remnant is?

Sad to hear you say that about the gospel of God's grace

Calvinism the truths of tulip are nothing short than the gospel of God's grace!

Nice post does predestination define specifically the sinners that God loves?

You just dont understand 1 Jn 2:2 propitiation You going all over the place you just don't understand propitiation By His Death those He died for escape the wrath to come. If He did not die for you then you will not escape the wrath to come Even in John 3:16 the world God so loved He saved it...

I believe Jesus consume the wrath of God on behalf of his elect, so they are never under God's wrath even when they're unbelievers

Christ propitiation is valid for anybody he died for even before they believe, for he paid for the sins of his sheep before they were believers that's why they become believers

Yeah but Christ is the propitiation for a people group the world of God's elect from amongst the Jews and gentiles. You seem to be very unsure about what you really understand about propitiation!

Not my opinion but the word of God

If God was to leave a man to himself, what we are naturally, we would never be saved, we would never seek the True God , which is the God of Election Rom 3:11 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. We would never come to Christ, the True Christ that came...

@Silverhair Correction, they professed to be believers, they identified with believers, but werent true believers by the Holy Spirit. They were what Jesus called stony ground believers but had no root in Grace and sooner or later they fall away Matt 13 20-21 20 But he that received the seed...

You have no answer, you always post something, but never have answers.

Yeah it does exclude them under wrath in the world. God has to show you. If you understood propitiation you would not question it. I cant give you understanding. @JonC Evidently He has not if you believe Christ is the propitiation for them under His wrath and shall die in their sins. You...

Im speaking of propitiation in 1 Jn 2:2 and why it excludes them under wrath !

So you have no answer now

@JonC The whole world of 1 Jn 2:2 is only comprised of them saved from wrath. It cannot apply to any who are currently under Gods wrath or died under His wrath. Christ cant be the propitiation for anyone under Gods wrath, impossible. These unbelievers are under Gods wrath Jn 3:36 36 He that...

No man can come to Christ naturally because by nature as Paul writes concerning the gentiles in Eph 2 they are helpless and without hope in themselves pertaining to Salvation Eph 2:12 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from...

The issue is Adam became the natural head of the non elect serpent seed also, so he and eve provided births for two different seeds, the seed of the woman and the seed of the serpent. All who are born again belong to the seed of the woman and Christ, all others belong to the condemned serpent...