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I'm not sure how you reconcile that statement with your earlier statement, which was, "NONE can be saved apart from the special revelation of God in Christ." Which is it? Your first argument was that NONE can be saved apart from the special revelation of the gospel, and your second argument...

So, regarding OT believers who never had the gospel preached to them, do you believe: 1) God revealed the gospel to them supernaturally prior to their death? If so, how and what exactly do you believe they knew about the gospel? 2) God revealed the gospel to them after their death? 3)...

Obviously. Because this is a debate board where we debate such matters. You have the FREEDOM to answer the question or ignore it....or do you? ;) So why are you here, since apparently you already have arrived at all knowledge of all the various views and approaches to all these complex matters...

I agree, this is a very good and informative article. Thanks for posting it. I want to highlight a few things from it here: "In response to both universalism and restrictivism—viewed by many Christians as extremes—a wide number of views have been developed that situate themselves between...

Ok, now I see your misunderstanding. I wasn't arguing that God WOULD send everyone a dream to provide them an opportunity. We were talking about those who respond to the general light of God's revelation being sent MORE revelation (i.e. he who is faithful with little is given more). And I...

Heir, What about Rahab? You speak of Abraham being fully knowledgable of all the revelation of 'his time.' Would you consider this to be true of a uneducated prostitute who God's deems righteous because in faith she hids the Israelite spies? How about the thief on the cross next to Christ...

I googled those terms but most of the links seemed to speak more about the idea of all religions leading to heaven, not our issue. Can you specifically link me to a known Baptist scholar who expounds on your perspective? Thanks

Van, Among Christian writers, since the 1st century AD, "the Bosom of Abraham" has generally become synonymous with Christian Heaven itself. That is what I've always been taught and have believed, but I am open to consider other views on the subject. However, even if we accept that there...

I specifically asked for 'orthodox' baptist scholars who teaches this so I can research what you believe. Can you please provide a link or reference? Thanks

You left out on post 78 (page 8 for me), just pick up where you left off...or start up a new thread. Don't let a few pages of posts stop you. :thumbsup:

Van, as soon as you can show me the verse and the 'orthodox' Baptist scholar who claims that Rahab and the many other believers of the OT knew the 'name of Jesus' I will acknowledge your posts...also can you please acknowledge that one can be saved by Grace (provided by Christ's atoning work)...

VERSES TO CONSIDER: "In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent." -- Acts 17:30 "...in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished" -- Rom 3:25b "God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's...

Agreed. Agreed. But did He HAVE TO? That is my question. Was their a legal requirement to be fulfilled, or was God 'free' to credit his level of faith in his given revelation as righteousness? Again, I agree, but that (1) assumes that level of revelation exists for everyone/everywhere...

I'm being accused of not affirming that Jesus is the only way to heaven, which is a false accusation. I've explained my perspective numerous times and in numerous ways, but I have not ONCE suggested that anyone can be saved apart from Christ's atoning work. We are discussing the lack of...

Who said they weren't 'placed spiritually in Christ by God?" I'm only saying they didn't necessarily know of Jesus of Nazareth. They didn't understand the gospel as we know it today and yet their mustard seed sized faith in what ever revelation they were granted WAS credited as righteousness...

:thumbs: Compatibilism reduces human volition to animal instinct. Claiming that mankind is free because he is "choosing according to his desire" is senseless in a worldview where God decrees even the desires of man. There is NO sense of independence or autonomy on which to base human...

Exactly. It's tantamount to saying, "God does it, but it's not his fault for doing it." (which is almost verbatim what some have argued for here in the past....i.e. Luke)

All good questions and the answer depends on what type of Calvinist you happen to be engaging. Some of the more moderate Calvinists will say "allow," but others more bound to the logic of their system and defense of their view of 'sovereignty' will say 'decree' (as in planning or controlling...

Then don't. ;) The Westminster Confession of Faith is a Reformed confession of faith, in the Calvinist theological tradition...it states: "God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass..."

Gen. 3:22: "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil." - God What I still want to know that, no Calvinist here or anywhere, in my experience, has sufficiently answered, is why anything is considered truly evil in the Calvinistic account of God and creation? If everything...