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I understand, but it is my understanding that Luke believes that if God didn't use external means of prevention (such as parables) and a non-elect person heard the clear teaching of the gospel that it most likely would regenerate them, which seems to contradict what other Calvinists teach...

Most often? When would it not? Wouldn't it only accompany it with the elect according to most Calvinists?

I was wondering if anyone would finally notice! :laugh: No, actually we can see people's IP address and unless they continually change computers we can spot multiple IDs, if we are looking (which we typically don't unless their is a problem.)

And you think accusing me of 'running away from my assertions' while you continue to misrepresent what I explain to you over and over again IS ON TOPIC? If anyone is running from anything, its you running from the article YOU posted where a reasonable scholar clearly laid out the various...

Van, who do you think you are talking to when you refer to 'folks'? You've lost all credibility with anyone and everyone who spends more than a few minutes following your posts. This quote above is the last sentence of yours that I read... I couldn't take any more so if you said something...

I wasn't attempting to suggest you didn't affirm causation, but the fact that you affirm that there is NO cause that would prevent His elect from being saved or the non-elect from being condemned still affords my argument. :thumbsup: Same here bro!

Our argument over orthodoxy was concerning your view of Abraham's Bosom, which (as I explained) has typically been understood as just another term for 'heaven.' And even your quote from Retired Canadian Pastor, Robert stated, "Though Ephesians 4:8-10 is interpreted differently by some, it is...

It's not outrage and its not feigned. It is aggravation and it is very much REAL. I've explained the context of my dream comment a couple of times and yet you still draw false conclusions, so I'm not going to play that game with you. If you want to know what I believe for REAL you can go back...

He also believes: and.. Do you agree with these statements and think they are also 'orthodox' views? BTW, you do know that two orthodox believers can disagree about certain disputable matters of faith, right? I also agree with his point, "in any debate is that whoever gets to assign the...

Hmmm. Need I say more? Van, I wasn't making an argument for soul sleep...I was simply showing that different scholars have had ways they deal with the time lapse of entering eternity and your particular view of Abraham's Bosom is just another one of those theories that really has little to do...

Here is another verse that came to mind Winman... Jam 1:15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

I agree that people don't have to choose to believe in God. Scripture is clear that they DO believe in God. "...what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine...

John 3:13 says, "No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man." So? Many believe that heaven is timeless and that all believers will enter heaven at the same "time" because when we leave this dimension we all enter eternity. Some call the time lapse...

Patronize much? Grow up. As I've already explained (and provided documentation for), many (if not most) Christians today equate Abraham's Bosom with Heaven. The article you provided asserted it, and I agreed. You can't even agree with your own documentation Van. I googled Abraham's Bosom, as...

Van, I didn't see this post when I responded to the other one so forgive my comments about you not answering...I miss posts now and then. :saint: Ok, I don't remember you ever saying this before, but like I said before, how does this view change ANYTHING about my argument? If they went to a...

Again, both of our views believe there is no other name by which men must be saved, so if you could stop saying that as if it is unique to your view I'd appreciate it. After all you just posted an article that went to great lengths to explain this fact, you should understand it by now. Again...

So, in your view, people like Rahab the Gentile, uneducated harlot understood the gospel as we know it today? Yet, people like Peter, who walked with Jesus didn't understand it until after Jesus was raised from the dead? Is that right?

I'm not sure why you consider this to be a 'danger' within your worldview? What eternal, or even temporal, harm is there in a non-elect individual thinking they are saved? They were born unloved and unchosen by God, destined for certain destruction, why not give them the brief pleasure of hope...

It is interesting (and worthy of noting) that only one of the verses you site to support your assertion that mankind is incapable of any positive act of faith actually mentions "faith." That verse is Heb. 11:6, which notably mentions nothing about inability....in fact, it introduces a list of...

No he didn't. He affirm the divine permissive will, not determinism. You are the one who presumes that divine permissiveness equals divine determinism, which is really just a big game of Question Begging.