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No, Calvinists believe in preaching the Gospel to all mankind. But, for this to be a sincere "offer of salvation" to mankind, Jesus Christ would have had to have died for "all mankind". If as Calvinism teaches, that He died only for the elect, then the preaching of salvation in the Gospel, is...

like God "ordaining our sinful actions"? :rolleyes:

I asked this, because the person who started this does not tell us, just gives a bunch of Scripture passages!

also, One of the Three in the Godhead?

Calvinists, can preach their messages, and write their books, but when they are confronted with the Bible that disagrees with them, they fail. The fact is that there is much inconsistency in Calvinism that is not in other groups.

Yes, but "Calvinism" denies the "free will" in man to do this!

I don't think that we should try to be like God!

and damns the rest?

Grudem says that God "ordains" sinful actions. So, does this mean that the guy who just murdered 22 people here in England, was acting because God "ordained" his actions? This is an outrage to suggest!

I don't think that reformed/calvinists themselves know what they believe!

Like I said, Jon, we are here trying to discuss what really is out of our depths! This is what we are told in the Word of God: "The Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to work it and keep it. And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “You may surely eat of every tree of...

I know what you are saying. However, when you say, "If God chooses to extend grace, they are elect", surely you must have Scripture support for this? I don't see a single verse that says this. I am open to correction.

Hi Hank, thanks. The Bible does tell us that God is Perfect and Holy and Just and Righteous, etc, and that the whole of the created world is sinful and lost before Him. God cannot be the "author" of sin in any way, nor be tempted by sin, nor tempt anyone with sin. The Bible does also tell us...

"In Spite of All of the Foregoing Statements, We Have to Come to the Point Where We Confess That We Do Not Understand How It Is That God Can Ordain That We Carry Out Evil Deeds and Yet Hold Us Accountable for Them and Not be Blamed Himself: We can affirm that all of these things are true...

Jon, I think that you are entering very dangerous reasoning, which is not possible with our finite understanding. At no time can we attribute any sin, or sinful actions, to God, neither to Him or His involvement with His creation. The origin of evil/sin is a great mystery, which God in His...

Who is Jesus Christ?

"But he who believeth not in the Son. As he held out life in Christ, by the sweetness of which he might allure us, so now he adjudges to eternal death all who do not believe in Christ. And, in this way, he magnifies the kindness of God, when he warns us, that there is no other way of escaping...

I understand perfectly well. My point is, that it appears from the words of Dr Bottener, that all infants, elect and nonelect are saved when they die. Firstly, where is the Scripture basis for this? Secondly, this then clearly shows, that the death of Jesus Christ DID include the non-elect...

Guess what, and Calvinists don't understand Calvin's theology. Read John 3:16 in Calvin, and you will see that he calearly says that Jesus' death was for "everyone without exception"! "Calvinists" hold "everyone without distinction"!!!:Biggrin

If this is right, "infants have never committed any actual sin themselves, their inherited sin would be pardoned and they would be saved on wholly evangelical principles", then you cannot have "election" as well, as they contradict each other!