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  1. AndyMartin

    Hell: Which View is The Bible One?

    Hi James, can you provide a single verse from the entire Holy Bible that refers to "purgatory"? It matters not one bit if the "pope" or anyone other "authority" says that this place actually exists. We MUST base our understanding on the Infallible, Inerrant Word of Almighty God ALONE.
  2. AndyMartin

    Hell: Which View is The Bible One?

    Hi Jon, what you say is very interesting. can I please ask for some clarification? When you say, "then I come out with a picture of Hell that is an expression of God’s judgment and one that must be eternal – not as a “punishment” but as a state of existence in consequence of sin". Are you...
  3. AndyMartin

    Hell: Which View is The Bible One?

    I don't know why Lordship Salvation is even being discussed here, as this is not the issue under consideration, and distracts from the main topic
  4. AndyMartin

    Hell: Which View is The Bible One?

    Matthew 25:64 "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Here we have in the same verse, the Greek "αἰώνιος" (eternal) used for both, "punishment", for the wicked, and "life", for the righteous. There can be no doubt that both the uses of "αἰώνιος"...
  5. AndyMartin

    Hell: Which View is The Bible One?

    Am I reading this right? It appears to me that you are saying that in the end, ALL humans, whether they have repented of their sins, and accepted Jesus Christ as their personal saviour, or not, will be in heaven? Is this correct? Do you believe that there will be any people in hell at all, and...
  6. AndyMartin

    Hell: Which View is The Bible One?

    Thanks for taking the time to explain. What you have said I already know. However, the point that I am making is, that none of the words in either Hebrew or Greek, strictly mean "eternal, time out of mind". On consulting with the lexicons of Brown, Driver, Briggs, Gesenius, Arndt and Gingrich...
  7. AndyMartin

    Hell: Which View is The Bible One?

    Please correct any mistakes you may find. I am better with Greek than Hebrew, but know that I am no scholar, and always welcome anyone to show my mistakes. If you can please take the time to point any errors, I would appreciate it, Thanks God bless, Andy
  8. AndyMartin

    Hell: Which View is The Bible One?

    The Bible does not teach anywhere that the wicked will at any time be "wiped out", "cease to exist". If there are Scriptures that do say this, then I would like to see them. The severity of the punishment of the wicked was in the mind of Jesus, when He said of Judas, "The Son of man indeed...
  9. AndyMartin

    Hell: Which View is The Bible One?

    It is difficult to argue for "eternal punishment" from the use of words, where the meanings might not always be what they seem. Like the words "eternal" in both Hebrew, "olam", and Greek, "aionios", which can also mean "for a duration", where the end is not "without end". I know they are used...
  10. AndyMartin

    Marcion the Heretic

    You have some out of one "false teaching", and into another one on the God of the Holy Bible, Whom you deny is a Trinity or Persons, and believe in Unitarianism, or Modalism? Which is it?
  11. AndyMartin

    Hell: Which View is The Bible One?

    I cannot believe that you actually said and believe this? "Yes, that was my point. No one will or can extinguish the fire. That does NOT mean that the fire will not die on its own when it runs out of fuel." Is this a joke? Are you saying that Almighty God, Who created all things "out of...
  12. AndyMartin

    Marcion the Heretic

    There is no separate Deity. there is only One Eternal Being God, but in the Godhead, we are told in the Bible, that there are Three separate Person's, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, but These Three are one in essence. What you are saying is Modalism, where the One Person God, appears as "Father"...
  13. AndyMartin

    Hell: Which View is The Bible One?

    Are you saying that hell is not a literal place of eternal conscious torment for the wicked, and that it all ends in the grave? We cannot use our human understanding to comprehend what God can do in afflicting pain on a spiritual body. Can you define what you mean by "hell"?
  14. AndyMartin

    Hell: Which View is The Bible One?

    Firstly, the Hebrew verb, "kabah", actually means, "will not go out, be extinguished". It is an eternal fire. The Greek equivalent is "ἄσβεστος" (our English "asbestos") which also means, "unquenchable, inextinguishable" (as in Mark 9:46, etc). Revelation 14:11 says, "And the smoke of their...
  15. AndyMartin

    Hell: Which View is The Bible One?

    Yes, I agree, 3 or 4 are non starters. There is a lot of metaphor used in the Bible, especially in the Book of Revelation. But, I don't think that this detracts from the fact that hell will be a place of eternal suffering. The language used by Jesus Himself in describing the eternal destiny of...
  16. AndyMartin

    Hell: Which View is The Bible One?

    Hi kyredneck, before I respond, can you please clarify your position on hell. Are you saying that the Bible does not teach that hell is "eternal"? That the "fire" of hell will go out at some time? Does this mean that you hold to annihilationism? Thanks, Andy
  17. AndyMartin

    Marcion the Heretic

    To deny "Personality" to the Holy Spirit, lands you into a confrontation with the Word of God, which clearly teaches that the Holy Spirit is a Person, just like the Father and Jesus Christ are. Firstly, to speak of "personality", we mean, "consisting of intelligence and will", which sets humans...
  18. AndyMartin

    Marcion the Heretic

    Hello Jason, you say that the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity, is "man-made", which means that you reject this as being taught in the Holy Bible? While I would admit that the actual term "Trinity" is no where in the Bible, but, what it means and teaches, is very clearly based on Bible Facts. The...
  19. AndyMartin

    Hell: Which View is The Bible One?

    First, the orthodox view is commonly interpreted to be the belief that punishment for the wicked is everlasting and that it is punitive, not redemptive. Because the Bible reveals that God is a God of love and grace, a tension has developed between the concepts of a loving God and of a righteous...
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