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This is all boiled down to the ability to desire something. Calvinists don't believe mankind has the ability to desire God's appeal to be reconciled, we do. Agree or disagree and why?

You will need to quote my statements which appear to be in contradiction to what I've always said. I think I have been very consistent on this point. A good thing about an online forum is that there is proof by simply going back and reading it. If you can find contradictions I'd be glad to...

Right and who are "these people?" Option 1: Individuals preselected by God from all nations to the neglect of the mass of humanity who will certainly die without hope of ever being saved. Option 2: Whosoever believes regardless of their nationality. One of them is GOOD NEWS, and one...

You are avoiding my question by asking me a question I've answered many times. Yes, men are born depraved, but their depravity is not more powerful than God's solution for their depravity. The gospel is more powerful than depravity. But, in your system, would you admit that man is unable to...

How is God's choice to punish mankind for the Fall with a nature that is totally unable to come even when invited, not interpreted as God 'keeping people from coming?' Please explain this. If I punish my dog for chewing up my shoe by locking him in a pen and then call him to come to me, then...

The appeal of God sent to all mankind calling them to be reconciled. An appeal is a 'request,' 'invitation,' or 'pleading.' I need you to attempt to restate what I believe so I can know you understand our view because it still appears you think we believe God's choice to justify an individual...

jbh, I'd be interested to know what specifically he wrote that you would reject as being true and why. I'm not asking in hostility or anger. I'd just honestly like to know what specific things do you believe are 'straw man' arguments and why. Sometimes I think people use the 'straw man...

:thumbsup: Well said Willis!

Quote it or forget it. :) I just don't believe it is more corrupt than the Gospel is powerful. Understand now? You think our corruption is more powerful than the gospel appeal, and I don't. You think man's corruption must be overcome FIRST and then the gospel is powerful to make an appeal...

I just moved into our new house a couple of years ago. I paid a builder to build it. A condition for the builder to build my house was that I sign a contract to pay him. But he built it, I didn't. I simply met the condition HE required for HIM to do all the WORK. See the difference? Now...

Scripture disagrees with you: John 3:15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him." John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one...

So, whose fault is that? Did God not make it clear enough, did God not make me smart enough, ORRR did God make me free to make a judgement and either accept the truth or trade that truth in for a lie thus making me responsible for my choice?

JonC, I disagree, respectfully of course because you're a respectable fellow. :) I believe Augustine/Calvin's individualistic approach has created an unnecessary controversy. It is not a controversy for those who don't read those passages from an individualized perspective. Just look at...

Are you suggesting Augustine and Calvin didn't view election from the individual perspective? (i.e. God chose to effectually save that individual but not that one?) Versus the corporate view of election (i.e. God chose to effectually save whosoever believes, Jew or Gentile). Please explain.

No one here has denied that and you know it. Deal with my actual views please or we are just going to keep going in circles. I affirm that we are born enemies of God, but I also believe that is why God sent a message meant to make an appeal for his enemies to be reconciled. There is nothing...

God may require a condition (faith) to be met before he regenerates someone, but that doesn't mean man 'participates in the work of regeneration.' The work itself is all of God's, but it is only done to those who believe in Christ. Scripture teaches that we are made alive through faith. Faith...

:thumbs: Thank you for understanding a restating my views correctly. That is a rare gift around here apparently. :smilewinkgrin:

You have just answered the question of the OP by showing that you do not understand your opponents position. Faith cometh by hearing from God, and thus is not 'inherent in fallen man.' The fact that we affirm man's ability to respond willingly in faith or trade the truth in for a lie...

Exactly my point. It works to ENABLE the person to respond. If every conviction of God lead to certain salvation then everyone would be saved because God sent his HS to convict the world of sin. Surely you've known of people who were under conviction but who rejected, don't you? I know I do...

And one could avoid the unnecessary contradictions by simply removing the presumption that the first statement is really about individuals. If Cals understand election like the church fathers and most of Christianity not influenced by the Western influences of Augustine and Calvin the...