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Can you quote me a Calvinists who says, "God chose to permit men to freely respond to his appeal for reconciliation. No man responded, so God makes the choice as to what individuals will certainly be saved." But, then you change it a bit by saying.. Is it that he tried free will and when it...

Listen, we established this point before you got here: Unable to be willing = unable Okay? Why else would John 6:44 speak of being 'enabled?' If I gave you a drug which made you not ever want to obey any law and you committed a crime, who is really culpable? Even if you WANTED...

Yes, you didn't get a ballot? Uh-oh. I guess you're not one of the chosen ones. :smilewinkgrin:

Forest, with all due respect, it doesn't appear your posts are in response to what has been stated. You seem to quote a post and then restate a Calvinistic premise, which may or may not even apply to the post you are quoting. May I suggest you start going line by line, or phrase by phrase, or...

Where does scripture ever say that, and what scholars have held to this view?

Then how did they come to be enslaved and totally unable to willing come even when invited by God himself?

What is meant by 'naturally'? By nature? What is nature, if not God? But apparently that work of the Spirit isn't sufficient apart from the regenerative work of Spirit, right? No they don't. I agree. But WHY don't they have an excuse? Because they 'clearly see and understand' the...

Tozer is a man, not an apostle, so I'd suggest you read every 'scholar' with that same amount of scrutiny, even Calvin, Augustine, Luther and the like.

And I never denied that, nor does the OP contradict that view simply because it doesn't address it. A distinction without a difference IMO. If you affirm, which I believe you must, that it was God's choice to punish all of mankind by enslaving them with a "Totally Depraved" nature from birth...

Again, you are over individualizing the intent of the text. I'M NOT SAYING that individuals aren't involved, because clearly they are, but you are OVERLY emphasizing the individual to the neglect of the obvious intent. Who are God's objects of wrath? Option 1: Those INDIVIDUALS God didn't...

Aren't God haters just practicing the 'Golden Rule?' Do unto others...? They are just doing unto God what God has done unto them since before they were even created. And is Jesus' words about loving your enemies and doing good to them not applicable to God himself?

And why were they and the non-elect in a state of rebellion from birth? Whose choice was it to punish all mankind with Total Depravity because of Adam's sin? So, your argument is that because the elect were also blameworthy for their inevitable and inborn nature of rebellion, the non-elect are...

Icon, Can you provide actual quotes from Olsen and/or Wrenn where they deny 1 Samuel, the Exodus account, and massive portions of scripture are in the bible? I looked but I can't find those quotes. Thanks.

Amen. Now let's discuss the nature of that Grace which you continue to avoid. I think we all know why you avoid that issue. Of course they are individuals, but to ignore the bigger picture, as you do, is short-sighted to put it nicely: "The LORD said to her, "Two nations are in your womb...

Oh, if I had any measure of interest in doing so I could build a pretty strong guilt by association attack on any one of these men and so could you. I suspect if you found out that any of them didn't hold to the litmus test of your reformed dogma you'd make such efforts. And since Tozer didn't...

Why not? Because God hates them and made them that way from birth. A reason worthy of hatred, right? Oh, I see, so because HIDES the truth from them they have no excuse? Really? Wow. So, according to your view God deceives these poor saps by pretending to love them, but secretly hates...

I know the verse you are addressing, but I also know the other verse which Calvinists typically have tattooed on their chests. All of us would sell our birthrights. We are all self-fish evil sinners. You know that. So, to say that about Esau means nothing because his being unchosen had...

Do you believe Tozer is in heaven? Do you believe he was saved? I know you can't know for sure, but if you had to guess based on what you read?

Oh, and what about the questionable ending of the book of Mark where it teaches about snake handling etc? You don't think that even goes beyond some of the 'mystical' issues you've raised here?

Tom, I'd say you seem to be doing a lot of 'guilt by association' ploys to discredit this good man's life. Why not just deal with what HE claimed to believe and teach? Many preachers quote and even show great admiration for old dead poets, mystics, artists, philosophers and the like, but it...