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I've already read and responded to both of these and I ask again: if Clement of Rome (to take but one example quoted by the article you reference) was so bad, how come he isn't smacked down by the Apostle John, who was still very much around then. How come Ignatius, a disciple and appointee of...

I have no idea what you mean by the phrase 'transmission of Scripture', unless you mean Bibles being handed on from one generation to the next. But since there was no complete edition of the Bible prior to Jerome's Vulgate in the 5th century, I don't see how that term takes us forward with...

I'm afraid we have another 15 months of this sorry lot. Counting the days...

Not Thinkingstuff, but no-one has 'convinced' me. Only the evidence, which you deny, has convinced me. On the contrary, it is your view which is the 'Trail of Blood'-style, Carroll-ist revisionist mythological one which denies the plain facts, even when they are set out in the very words of...

Wow...just...wow! (Thinkingstuff has answered the rest.)

Thank you for demonstrating my point: that the Word of God does not equal the entirety of Scripture or even Scripture alone; you've demonstrated the principle that the Word of God equals Scripture plus Apostolic oral preaching and teaching. Thank you. I rest my case.

This isn't the first time that the Speaker's fallen foul of her church: statement by the (retiring) Catholic Abp of New York, ++Egan, to whom muchos kudos.

Your view would hold water if this was the 'traditions of men'. But it isn't But not the complete Word (by evangelical definition ie: the Bible) since the NT did not exist; not one of its 27 books had been written at that point, so 'Word of God' there cannot mean the NT. Yes. And? Did they...

Plenty do eg: the Amish, the Exclusive Brethren. It isn't confined to Catholics. And it can have profound effects on the victims.

Excellent post!:thumbs:

You forgot Ignatius (fl. first decade of the second century AD), also a disciple/appointee of John and, as DHK has shown below, also a propogator of proto-Catholic/Orthodox teaching, both on the Real Presence and episcopal government. DHK, interesting, is it not that, given that Clement was a...

Just one point of correction: Actually, no I haven't. I pointed out they believed in the Real Presence in the Eucharist, which is not the same thing. Transubstantiation was a much later doctrine (12th-13th centuries) and only put forward by the Western part of the Church. The East has never...

Oh, come on!

As a Christian, responsible for stewarding God's creation, then yes, you should take it into account to a degree.

But if the anthropogenic climate change claimers are correct, then you're taking a huge risk, aren't you?

Why not - when it has been amply demonstrated? I find that a very odd attitude and akin to that of the geocentrists and Flat Earthers of the 16th and 17th centuries, hence my comment.

Three-page limit. Final comment - it was the climate-change deniers I was calling 'Flat Earthers'. I really don't understand what motivates them at all; I certainly can't see any religious motive for it (quite the opposite) so I can only conclude it's because they want to keep driving their...

Hardly an inane question, rather a germane one. Yes, but I don't think the OP is questioning the premise that the Bible is the Word of God. It's about the provenance of the ECFs.

Not Thinkingstuff but an example which immediately springs to mind is the Real Presence in the Eucharist.

No, it seems that Billwald was doing that.