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I would refer you to the Liturgy of James the Brother of the Lord, c.60AD which, though it contains many later interpolations, the Eucharistic Prayer is one of the more original features, and it is that which I set out below; compare it with our present Anglicac, Catholic and Orthodox...

I've already given an example of a 'works-based salvation' above; I suppose I would define it as any soteriology which suggests (in addition to faith) that good works (or abstaining from certain sins) are necessary in order to maintain one's salvation.

Except that reliance on private charity has been tried - and it doesn't work. One has only to read the pages from Mr Dickens' novels to realise that.

It all depends which brand of millenialism you subscribe to.... In the UK there's been a long and honourable tradition of Christian Socialism (Robert Owen, Charles Kingsley etc), drawing perhaps less from the NT than from the OT prophets with their clarion calls for social justice etec. Same...

From my own limited experience, girls asking guys out on date #1 tends to end in tears. That said, I think it's OK for a girl to ask a guy back ie: 2nd or subsequent dates, but the guy should do the running on #1. (FTR I'm married and although I asked Mrs B out first, she asked me out on the...

And you have your opinion- that's all it is: opinion. Correction: you have your interpretation of Scripture. Massive difference. No it's not! If it was, everyone would agree with you, They don't. QED.

No, they're not. You have your opinion and I have mine. WE can fling anathemata at each other and each accuse the othe of being in error, but that doesn't get us very far, does it? I prefer to do what Christians have always done throughout the centuries, whereas you follow a theological...

Others have already chipped in, and I'm happy to oblige with a Confession from a mere 17 years after Wesley's death: The wording is lifted almost verbatim from our (Anglican) 39 Articles of Religion of 1563 (don't forget that Wesley lived and remained until his dying day an Anglican).

I'm not so sure; I've encountered several Baptists just on these boards who seem to believe that you can imperil your salvation by drinking alcohol or by dancing. That sounds to me pretty much like some form of 'works-based salvation'; if it walks like a duck etc

I would take issue with Bound's claim that Agnus would not have been happy in the first three centuries of the Church due to lack of liturgy. Christianity arose from within Judaism, which is and was highly liturgical; the early liturgical records we have for the Church show striking similarities...

Hmmm...the Synod of Dort disagreed:p

I would disagree: I would say that the differences between Arminian and Catholic soteriologies are smaller than those between Arminian and TULIP soteriologies.

Are you seriously suggesting that gnostic dualists are Christians?

Your point is well taken. However, would you not agree that there is a soteriological gulf between a 5-point TULIP Calvinist and, say, a Wesleyan Arminian or the issue under discussion on this thread?

Explain why.

Your argument is circular and based on the unproven premise of apostleship being unrepeatable after the Twelve; both Scripture and Tradition demonstrate otherwise.

:thumbs:That's my main problem with the book: it lumps together schismatic Christians like the Donatists, reforming Catholic movements like the Waldensians and proto-evangelicals like the Hussites and Lollards with obvious heretics like the Paulicians and Cathars, purely and simply on the basis...

What about this, then: ?

See here for the Catholic view of justification, FWIW

I think the Vatican would also agree that faith comes from God.