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Heigh-ho! I'll cancel the flowers. :Frown The Lord Jesus did not suffer God's wrath at any time. He always remained the Beloved Son. And while Satan undoubtedly hated Him and sought to kill Him at various points, at the cross he had nothing to do with it, and you will find no text that says...

@DaveXR650 has given a number of excellent definitions of PSA. I have given the same definition times without number: '....that God gave Himself in the Person of His Son to suffer instead of us the death, punishment and curse due to fallen humanity.' That is all I have ever argued for. So if...

No mention of Satan once again. Just like Isaiah 53 and all the N.T. crucifixion accounts. Satan could do nothing to God's people without the permission of God (Job 1:12; 2:6; Luke 4:1; 22:31). All his power came from his being 'the accuser of our brethren, who accused them day and night...

That's another great quote! Is it Stott again?

Wow! The posts on Penal Substitution come think and fast and I just can't keep up with them! I am preaching tomorrow; I have Christmas services to lead; I am going to be leading a door-to-door outreach in the New Year and I have five R'E' lessons to take at a local school (yes, we can do that...

Apart from the very first quotation, I see no mention of anyone claiming that the devil killed Christ, and in fact Augustine is considerably later than the other whom @JonC mentions. Some of thse I disagree with - I am not a fan of Irenaeus' 'recaptitulation theory' - but I don't think that any...

I don't know how you can write such nonsense with a straight face! But as you steadfastly refuse to engage with any of the texts that I posted on the O.P., here are some of them again: 1. Clement of Rome. 'In love the Ruler took us to Himself. Because of the love He had towards us, Jesus...

I have checked all these texts in my TBS Greek Testament and the UBS Critical Text, and there is no difference in these verses so fr as the underlying texts are concerned. The differences are translational. For example, pais, paida in Acts 3:26 can mean 'son' or 'servant.' According to...

You made no clarification on the 'Early Atonement' thread. [False accusation removed] But that's eleven posts you've made now with no attempt whatsoever to comment on any of the ECFs that I have quoted. You're not debating here; you're trolling! Go and annoy someone else!

I think you are. This is why I'm not on the thread: so that you can push your position without the irritation of having to defend it. Here's an example: This is so bad, it's almost unbelievable! There is no mention of the devil anywhere in Isaiah 53. The chapter does tell us who killed our...

Who says? I'm asking because I don't know. You don't tell us. How much does it agree with the various extracts from the ECFs that I have posted? So who are 'we'? Is this a quotation from one of the ECFs speaking for all the other ECFS, even the ones who weren't born when this was written...

I agree absolutely. But when a [member] starts a thread for the very purpose of pushing his own viewpoint and denies others the opportunity to reply, that is simply not right.

I want to add another quotation from the ECFs which I have posted before, but I think it is so important it bears repeating. Jutin Martyr. 'Then Trypho [the Jew] remarked, "Be assured that all our nation waits for Christ; and we admit that all the Scriptures that you have quoted refer to Him...

The early church agrees with PSA in most of its writings, and does not contradict it. In Pierced for our Transgressions by Jeffrey, Ovey and Sach, the authors write, "In truth the weight of evidence is quite overwhelming, and it is worth reflecting on the extracts cited in the following pages...

And @JonC wants to oppress any opposing view that he may find a challenge. What is it about the term "Discussion forum" that you find so threatening? Kim Jon Un and Putin would be proud of you. It was an attempt to put forward your view and prevent others from critiquing it.

This is the best thing I have seen on this board for quite a while. Good job! How God must love us sinners to put His beloved Son to grief for us!

Yep! He cleanses us from our sins. :) Have you sorted it out so I can post on the 'Early Atonement View' thread? That would be so helpful. Thanks!

Charlie, I don't know you but from reading your posts I like you and would sooner stand with you that with many others here, but you know this isn't really so. If Christ is the satisfaction for the sins of every person in the whole world, then God is satisfied in respect of the sins of every...

Acts 2:38. 'Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of SINS...' He does not say, "for the remission of sinfulness. It's not your only error, nor your worst, but trying to drive a wedge in between sins and sinfulness is not...

I am absolutely not KJV-only, but I have to say that I question if your Hebrew is strong enough to say that with such confidence. Mine certainly isn't.