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If I can't have tangible, I would be very happy if God would communicate with me in a way that my senses could perceive. Instead of some vague impression that might be God or might only be my conscience.

You will never get a PSA fanatic to admit they are wrong because if they did their whole house-of-cards made-up theology would crumble. They don't even use scripture honestly. When confronted with what Isaiah 53 actually says, as I did when I showed that a contrast was given by using the word...

Of course. But I need tangible.

The total absence of PSA from the first 1500 years of Christianity proves it is not the Gospel. That's why many of it's advocates try so hard to connect the doctrine to the early church when no connection exists -- without this manufactured and misrepresented connection, their house of cards...

But He's not here.

You said a mouthful.

Thanks. What you wrote encourages me. I had been wondering if I needed to find a Quaker or Mennonite church. But there are none in my area. Considering the variety that you just described, how would you know if you were in a church that taught actual PSA as the gospel?

I appreciate your efforts. I know I may be asking for something that is not 'logical'. I mean, communication with a spiritual being has to be different from communication with a flesh and bones person. But I guess I'm like the Apostle Thomas.

Okay, I get what you're saying. But if my wife only communicated with me the way people say God communicates with us, I wouldn't consider that my wife and I were communicating.

JonC, do you ever feel out of place in the Baptist denomination? You could join one of the Wesleyan churches and get a Governmental view of the atonement, although it is only marginally better than PSA, in my opinion.

JonC, thanks very much for all your posts on the early church view of the atonement. It's really laughable to see all the flailing about, trying to make the ECF seem to support PSA, a doctrine that didn't exist at the time, proof of which being that neither the Eastern branch nor the Western...

Thanks. Yes, I believe that. But I need something tangible. Communication is a two-way street. If I'm the only one I hear talking, that's not communication.

I'll add this: He's the only one who has had the guts to stand up to the DemonRats and the legacy media. I wish the rest of the Republican party would grow a spine. I don't really consider myself a Republican either because that party, in my opinion, is still riddled with globalists, which I am...

The Carter administration. He was supposed to be a born-again Christian.

Let me preface this post by saying that I changed from a conservative to a moderate-liberal after I got grown and stayed that way for 25 years. However, I then saw what liberal policies had done, and I became a staunch conservative. At first, I didn't support Trump in the 2016 Republican...

Exactly. So why don't we see this in churches today? I'd like to go to a church where miraculous healings are the norm.

PSA was a product of its time. God had come to be viewed not so much as a merciful Father but instead as a harsh judge. To discount early Christian views and 1500 years of Christian history in favor of a 'johnny-come-lately' theory based on a terribly wrong view of the nature of God is highly...

So you believe that 'modern' Christians -- those who have lived since 1500 -- have had a better understanding of the atonement than those early Christians did, many of whom knew Jesus personally or knew the apostles. Amazing.

In reading these various threads, I must state that I owe a huge debt of gratitude to JonC for his many accurate posts about PSA, its origins, and its complete lack of support in scripture, the early church, and the Church Fathers, despite attempts here to contort the Fathers's words into...

I don't mean to come off as arrogant or sound like a know-it-all. I'm not. I've questioned every belief I've held and doubted more than a few. But if there's one I'm certain about, it's the atonement, and that's based on scripture, the early church, subsequent church history, and Jesus Christ...