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The bible says we are born again/regenerate after we hear and believe the gospel not before. We are saved because we believe and we do good works because we are saved. Why is that so confusing to you?

Note they are those of the C/R view so I would not expect them to agree with me. But then again many of that view do have a problem with the text of the bible also.

How is quoting calvinists misrepresenting what calvinists say?

KY you just do not like it when I point out the obvious errors that come from your particular religion.

So your going with A [before we believe]. Not a biblical view but it is yours. Oh by the way "faithfulness" is a fruit of the Spirit for those that believe not faith as you continue to claim. Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness...

I agree BF we must be born again but you still have not answered the question. When are we indwelt by the Holy Spirit A] before we believe or B] after we believe It really is not that hard a question but you continue to dance around it rather than just give a straight answer. Is it A or B...

You seem to have missed all these verses BF so I will post them again. To you perhaps is is all a mystery but not to those that actually trust what the bible says. Rom 1:16 I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, first to the Jew...

To you perhaps but not to those that actually trust what the bible says. Rom 1:16 I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, first to the Jew, then to the Greek. Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and...

And you still miss the truths contained there in.

Believe what you will BF. I have pointed you to the truth of God's word and you just dance around it. I only respond to your errant views so that those who read this threads will see the errors in your religion.

Convicting one of their sin is not giving one faith or saving them. So the question is valid. The bible itself is extreme Joh 3:18 Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

Actually the bible speaks is quite clear of when one is born of the Spirit. It is when they believe. Act 10:44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who heard his message. Act 10:45 All the circumcised believers who had accompanied Peter were astounded that...

Read all of John 10 not just the verses that you think support your view BF.

But what is the work of Jesus for sinners BF. Luk 24:46 And He told them, “This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, Luk 24:47 and in His name repentance and forgiveness of sins will be proclaimed to all nations, beginning in Jerusalem. Joh 1:29...

Well we can see your unbiased opinion there can't we. Well not quite. BF: We are 100% saved before believing because 'God gives faith as a gift'. That is a true refection of BF's view. SH: The Holy Spirit sits quietly on the sidelines until we are indwelt 'after we are saved'. You continue...

Actually you have just made the error of reading your religion into the text again. Joh 3:14 "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; Joh 3:15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world...

None are so blind as those that will not see and you continue to prove that BF. The Holy Spirit convicts man of their sin, and points them to Christ. Man has to respond in faith/trust to the gospel truths before God in His grace will save them. Justification is immediate upon faith in God...

Fun Fact: Gal 5:22 is speaking to those that are already believers. We are told what is the fruit of the Spirit one of them being "faithfulness". BF and you it would seem have also missed that point. Paul distinguishes between the works of the flesh, [Galatians 5:19-21] and the fruit of the...

For someone that claims to preach the word of God you do seem to know very little of the word of God but you do know quite a bit of what those C/R teachers have told you.

Not what the bible says but then you rarely trust what the bible actually says.