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How about the paralyzed man in Luke 5:20? Man, your sins are forgiven you. Was he saved or not?

If this is so, then there is no hope for anyone as I said. And it will not do for you to say that it is a logical fallacy. It is what you say. Well I think you may be suggesting that He is. Romans 5:6, 8-9. 'For when we were still without strength, in due time, Christ died for the ungodly...

In fact, you were the one who introduced Augustine (post #61 on the 'Disagreements about the atonement' thread). You were also the one who kept introducing the church fathers and, of course, the one who started this thread. Just saying.

Well, we're all in big trouble then! 'As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one!"' It looks like we need a Saviour! But it isn't going to be Jesus. :Frown Unless, of course the Bible is true (Isaiah 53:5-6)! :D

It would need to be re-posted on the Open Forum.

If I had posted posts #1-3, @JonC would have dismissed them as "snippets" and demanded that I write great reams of "context." But let that pass. As I wrote on another thread, Augustine's body of work is vast and he contradicted himself enough for both Roman Catholics and Protestants to claim...

I don't think I am. It's just a question of reading the plain meaning of the verses. 'Surely He has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed Him stricken, smitten by God and afflicted....' We can surely agree that on the cross our Lord was indeed 'stricken' and 'afflicted' -...

With respect, I think you may have missunderstood the text. "...we esteemed Him stricken, smitten by God and afflicted. But He was wounded for our transgressions...", etc. First of all, He was smiiten by God. Isaiah 53:10. 'Yet it pleased the LORD to crush Him; He has put Him to grief.' See...

What you don't understand (or choose to forget) is that the Lord Jesus is our Mediator and our Surety or Guarantor. I explained all that on another thread a short while ago, but the gist of it is this. It is an extract from the extended piece that I wrote on this board ten years or more ago...

Lol.... no. @JonC always insisted that a larger portion of Scripture would disprove what anyone could see they were saying. He would have had me typing out the entire corpus of their writings! But he never actually troubled himself to print them out himself. Of course, they aren't...

There was a time when God spoke through a donkey. Do I believe that He could do the same today if He wishes? Absolutely! But I am not going to suppose that all donkeys can talk and only keep quiet because they have nothing to say. Nor am I going to hang about at the nearby Donkey Sanctuary...

I quoted part of Justin Martyr's Dialogue with Trypho the Jew. Someone else has quoted from Clement of Rome. Do I really have to dig them out and post them again? No, because all you will do is wait a couple of weeks and then post as if they didn't exist. And I responded in considerable...

It goes back to the very earliest writings of the 'apostolic fathers.' It comes from a whole stream of godly men. It holds the Biblical view of Divine justice If the Lord Jesus taking away our sins materializes them. It takes its understanding of the atonement from the word of God. It is...

[Continuation] 5. On the Cross we can see the end of all our sins. ‘And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all’ (Isaiah 53:6). If my iniquities have been laid upon Christ they are no longer on me. To be sure, there is still sin in me for I still carry the relic of my old Adamic...

What I mean is that Christ was pierced for our transgressions, crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him. It pleased God to crush Him and put Him to grief. What exactly is your problem with that? Just to be clear, it is finished (John 19:30). God set Him...

On the cross, everything was accomplished for our salvation (John 19:28) according to the plan set forth before the beginning of time (Titus 1:2 etc.). That starts with God's righteous anger against sin and sinners being propitiated, but it does not finish there. Obviously, it opens the way...

Miraculous healings in the N.T. were very much the domain of the apostles, and maybe one or two of the Apostolic Band. Notice how Luke separates the apostles from the other Christians in regard to miracles. Acts 2:43. ‘Then fear came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were done...

First of all, I’d like to explain what I mean by the word, Cessationism. 1. I do not believe that all miracles have ceased today. Every time someone is saved it is a miracle of God’s power and grace, and He is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think. However, I do not...

@JonC, you seem to think that salvation ought to be something terribly complicated. I have no time at present to reply to your incessant flow of posts; only to say that the atonement is actually very simple. It is summed up in one word - love. What was it, O our God, Led The to give Thy Son...

One of the stranger features of @JonC's theology is that he seems to be clearer on what other people believe than he is about what he himself believes. I don't recall using the word "accountability" in any of my posts but that has not deterred him from claiming that I believe it. However, let's...