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I want to approach this from two angles. Firstly, from a human viewpoint, I am not particularly familiar with the USA justice system, but it is not my impression that if someone commits murder, rape or some other crime and then says he is sorry, he is immediately forgiven and all charges are...

Dense, either way Let's try and find some common ground. 'Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him; He has put Him to grief.' So we can agree, can't we, that it was God, and not the devil who bruised or crushed Christ and put Him to grief? So why did God do that? Was it because He hated Christ...

Excellent post! A couple of other reasons were the suppression of pirates (by Julius Caesar) and the vastness of the Roman Empire (no borders or customs).

Hello @Alan Dale Gross, I don't have any reason to give as to why other translations give 'Servant' rather than 'Son' in Acts 3:26. Maybe someone else could give a reason. The reason for my post was simply to show that there is no textual variant for the text. I get a bit impatient with people...

The Lord Jesus experienced God's wrath AGAINST SIN. Of course He did. I think you are being intentionally (?) dense. I particularly like the Stott quotation that @DaveXR650 posted earlier. '"The cross was not a commercial bargain with the devil, let alone one which tricked and trapped him; nor...

You really don't get it, do you? Even after all this time. :rolleyes:

Proof positive that you never read my posts. I have maintained this here for almost 20 years! God's wrath is against sin and sinners, and the Lord Jesus willingly bore that wrath and paid the penalty for it in full on the cross. But He never ceased to be the beloved Son.

Heigh-ho! I'll cancel the flowers. :Frown The Lord Jesus did not suffer God's wrath at any time. He always remained the Beloved Son. And while Satan undoubtedly hated Him and sought to kill Him at various points, at the cross he had nothing to do with it, and you will find no text that says...

@DaveXR650 has given a number of excellent definitions of PSA. I have given the same definition times without number: '....that God gave Himself in the Person of His Son to suffer instead of us the death, punishment and curse due to fallen humanity.' That is all I have ever argued for. So if...

No mention of Satan once again. Just like Isaiah 53 and all the N.T. crucifixion accounts. Satan could do nothing to God's people without the permission of God (Job 1:12; 2:6; Luke 4:1; 22:31). All his power came from his being 'the accuser of our brethren, who accused them day and night...

That's another great quote! Is it Stott again?

Wow! The posts on Penal Substitution come think and fast and I just can't keep up with them! I am preaching tomorrow; I have Christmas services to lead; I am going to be leading a door-to-door outreach in the New Year and I have five R'E' lessons to take at a local school (yes, we can do that...

Apart from the very first quotation, I see no mention of anyone claiming that the devil killed Christ, and in fact Augustine is considerably later than the other whom @JonC mentions. Some of thse I disagree with - I am not a fan of Irenaeus' 'recaptitulation theory' - but I don't think that any...

I don't know how you can write such nonsense with a straight face! But as you steadfastly refuse to engage with any of the texts that I posted on the O.P., here are some of them again: 1. Clement of Rome. 'In love the Ruler took us to Himself. Because of the love He had towards us, Jesus...

I have checked all these texts in my TBS Greek Testament and the UBS Critical Text, and there is no difference in these verses so fr as the underlying texts are concerned. The differences are translational. For example, pais, paida in Acts 3:26 can mean 'son' or 'servant.' According to...

You made no clarification on the 'Early Atonement' thread. [False accusation removed] But that's eleven posts you've made now with no attempt whatsoever to comment on any of the ECFs that I have quoted. You're not debating here; you're trolling! Go and annoy someone else!

I think you are. This is why I'm not on the thread: so that you can push your position without the irritation of having to defend it. Here's an example: This is so bad, it's almost unbelievable! There is no mention of the devil anywhere in Isaiah 53. The chapter does tell us who killed our...

Who says? I'm asking because I don't know. You don't tell us. How much does it agree with the various extracts from the ECFs that I have posted? So who are 'we'? Is this a quotation from one of the ECFs speaking for all the other ECFS, even the ones who weren't born when this was written...

I agree absolutely. But when a [member] starts a thread for the very purpose of pushing his own viewpoint and denies others the opportunity to reply, that is simply not right.

I want to add another quotation from the ECFs which I have posted before, but I think it is so important it bears repeating. Jutin Martyr. 'Then Trypho [the Jew] remarked, "Be assured that all our nation waits for Christ; and we admit that all the Scriptures that you have quoted refer to Him...