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As a Brit I don't know much about the workings of the Southern Baptists. But I can give you some warnings from history. About 25 years ago, the Church of England introduced female vicars. It was supposed to be a popular move that would re-invigorate a denomination that was declining. All that...

The analogy was yours, not mine. Just so. The anomal died instead of the people. This is a pretty bad analogy even by your standards. I do not eat hamburgers to atone for my sins. If I am hungry and there are no hamburgers handy, I eat a frankfurter (not in Israel!) or vegetables. But if I...

If the animal was not sacrificed, the people would have died, yes? That seems to be what you are saying. So how is that not a substitution, and a penal one at that? The animal dies - penal. The people don't - substitution. You mean 'Second Adam, yes? But 'He was pierced...' Penal...

You have to reach my age first. I have compared your demanding of a single verse to prove PSA to the J.W.s demanding a verse proving the Trinity. I did not accuse you of being a J.W. or call you a heretic. It is a historical fact that the Unitarians in the early 18th Century refused to give...

I think you'll find it is. Matt. 20:28; Mark 10:45. The Greek preposition anti (used in those verses) very often means 'instead of' or 'in the place of.' E.g. Luke 11:11; 1 Cor. 11:15.

@DaveXR650 will answer for himself, but I have never accused Christus Victor as being identical to any heresy. Your version of it I have certainly criticized, but never called it a heresy. Indeed, I have said that C.V. is correct as far as it goes. After all, who believes in Christus Loser...

I am sorry to say that you are not being truthful, as is shown by the fact that you cannot document anything of the sort. To be sure I have said that your view is an error, which it is. But I have never called anyone a heretic, or hinted at it.

Romans 2:28-29; Gal. 3:7; Phil. 3:3. Edit: oops! @Armchair Apologist beat me to it!

You're joking, right? That post was after the one accusing @DaveXR650 and myself of heresy. It is also a mumbo-jumbo of excuses that fails to explain why you can call people heretics but no one else can.

I was waiting for JonC to get onto the New Testament before replying, but since he hasn't done so, here goes: Of course the people were right; He was stricken and smitten by God. 'Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him; He has put Him to grief,' confirmed by Zech. 13:7; Matt. 26:31, 56. Where...

Hello @Ben1445, This is the definition of PSA that I have been using on this board for about 15 years: 'The Doctrine of penal substitution states that God gave Himself in the Person of His Son to suffer instead of us the death, punishment and curse due to fallen humanity as the penalty for sin...

I think you didn't. The person who used the word "heresy" was you and you used it specifically about @DaveXR650 and myself.

So tell us where. What crazy idea is this? I post some Scripture without comment, and you post some other Scripture without comment. Where will that get us? One or both of us has to state what we believe the Scripture MEANS. This is a discussion forum. We state our understandings. The...

Where are God's words in this post then? If you want to discuss Scripture, get on and post some instead of posting "Have you stopped beating your mother yet" posts.

No. I go down this path when you break your own rules on the B.B. and call people heretics. It is something that you do when you are conscious of losing debates.

Just to be clear: I have NEVER called anyone a heretic on any discussion forum, or even used the word, except possibly in a historical context. If one says that a certain belief is a heresy, one is ipso facto saying that anyone who believes it is a heretic.

I've looked again at my comment here and I want to apologize for it. I did not at all mean to suggest that everyone who is against PSA is a Unitarian or JW, but that is probably how it came across. I do believe a higher level of Biblical proof is being demanded of PSA than is being asked of...

I'm so sorry to hear this. Praying for you, Kylie and her parents. Life is so fragile. I can't imagine how I would be feeling if it was my grandson.

It is always obvious when @JonC is losing the argument because he breaks his own rules as moderator and resorts to cheap shots and insults. By proclaiming PSA to be heresy, @JonC has also judged not only @DaveXR650 and myself to be heretics, but also John Bunyan, Charles Spurgeon and a host of...

It appears that almost every extant Greek manuscript - the oldest as well as the vast mjority - include the word "when." However, I don't see that it makes much difference. 'Ye were Gentiles.' i.e. Ye are not Gentiles any more; so, as @kyredneck asked, what are they now? Rom. 2:28-29; Gal...