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Greetings Jon, I forgot to reiterate something from my previous post. I had previously given a 'stages of judgment' in another post. Along with the verses in my last post, I wanted to add the ones that I presented previously in anther post in the judgment process. Those verse were... (Rom...

Thank you JonC for your reply. So when you say "it denies that God can forgive sins"... are you referring to a topic like 'God's good pleasure'? That is, is the complaint that the PenSub implies God is 'bound' by justice. In more other words, couldn't God just forgive sins before the Law was...

Greeting on this glorious Tuesday, JonC. Wow...I left for a day and there are three more pages of conversation. I will admit, I haven't read all the posts. My understanding at the moment is that you believe in a "representative substitution" (I'm not clear on all those details) and Dave is...

Greetings JonC. I'm on a little mini get away with the wife. So this will be short. Regarding your quote above, I'm going to rewrite it to what I think the question should be for me... (a) Can God [just] forgive sins? Or (b) must God [be consistent with His own nature] and conquer sins...

Greetings to all my brothers. My time currently is devoted to understanding how the Moral Law is an intentional step in the stratagem of God to bring redemption through Christ. This in-depth look is an attempt to understand a logical step by step order of the stratagem of God and its 'why's'...

Greetings atpollard. My apologies, for any long delay. It appears I only have time for hit and runs at the moment. Again, my apologies. My hope is that you have been doing well, my brother. I have two points about your quote, above. 1. The notion of the "end of all God's decrees" is the...

Not a problem Ken. Thank you for your time and your pleasant approach. I also agree that God's sovereignty reigns. What I see you expressing in the quote above is expressed by the Infralapsarian Calvinist as well. They just don't hold to Surpalapsarianism. Peace and love to you brother.

Ok. My bad :) I actually think this is a misrepresentation of the Supra model, logically. The "Is Jesus glorified" is a presupposition that is not included in the logic of the model for the Surpa. In other words, the Supra logically starts with the conclusion of that which is last in...

Ok, good. So let's focus on the first intent of the Supralapsarian model. By claiming first intent, one is saying this IS the purpose of creation. Supralapsarian model says... #1 God first decrees to predestine the elect to eternal life, and to predestine the reprobate to damnation. So...

Hello again, atpollard. Glad to talk with you again, my friend. I presume that by you saying "for me, THIS...". You are indicating that you are taking the Supralapsarian side of things and providing the argument of "that which is first in intention is last in execution...that which is last...

Greetings I am taking your quotes in reverse order, sorta. :) To be clear, by 'pristine' I meant without sin. I did not intend any implication regarding divine perfection. In other words, the complaint I am leveling upon the Supralapsarian order of decrees is that in the first intent that is...

Hi Ken. Thank you for your posts. You didn't really answer my question of whether you are a Supralapsarian or not. It seems to me that if you are in fact a Supralapsarian then by definition you cannot hold to a strict "He sees everything at once" and that there is then no logical order of...

Greetings Ken. Thank you for your wisdom regarding my post. Referring to the Supralapsarian model First Intent #1. God’s decree to predestine the elect to eternal life and to predestine the reprobate to damnation for their sins, Do you hold that the predestination of the elect, #1, is of...

Thank you I think that as a practical explanation, this is a good one. That is, it is a good analogy of the 'curse' for common day application and how the two might interrelate. Thank you for sharing an example I can use. However, I don't think this analogy touches on 'why the law?' in...

Greetings to all my brothers from all denominations. I might be biting more off than I can chew due to my current restraints of time. However, this topic came up in another debate and wanted to talk about it. Regarding divine good pleasure, God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow...

Sorry Charlie, I was gone for a bit hosting the in-laws. Awesome. I'll just add that along with Gal 3:19, other insights into 'why the law' would be for a “knowledge of sin” (Rom 3:20, Rom 7:7); and so the “offense might abound” (Rom 5:20); and to be a “tutor” (Gal 3:24), a guide toward the...

atpollard, greetings again brother. Side note but related. In regard to Christ satisfying justice (the law). What do you think about Galatians 3:13 as it pertains? (Gal 3:13 NKJV) 13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "Cursed...

Greetings to you as well, brother. Thank you for providing your insight into some of what I have written. Do you agree that one purpose of the Incarnation, death and resurrection was to put all things under His foot (1Cor 15:24-28, Heb 2:8, 1John 3:8, Phil 2:10, 1Pet 3:22)? Peace to you brother.

Greetings Dave. Back from the in-law weekend. :Thumbsup Making my way through all the posts I missed. My camp Not my camp Key Agreed. And I do believe that when we see "wrath" in the Bible it is the 'word picture' that represents judgement within the stratagem of God. We don't see God...

Do you think that the word "wrath" falls under the category of "justice"? Actually asking your thoughts. Let me first paint a picture and then will later go back and discuss verses. The heading to this list will be... God being consistent with His nature (not creating divine dissonance) 1...