When was Satan's Fall From Grace?

[Paleouss]

Greetings JonC

It could also be that Satan and 1/3 of the angels waged war in heaven and were cast out prior to Adam's sin

I'm exploring your logic here, or data that has you conclude such. I have a couple of questions...

1. What data in Revelation 12, I'm assuming you are referring to just Rev 12:4. What data suggests that this event in Rev 12:4 is the first fall of Satan?

2. What data in Genesis 3 suggests that the event in Genesis 3 is the first fall of Satan?

What I'm expecting you to reply is that there is no data in Rev 12:4 that would suggest this is the first fall of Satan. No data one doesn't infer anyway. But in Genesis 3?

Peace brother.

 

[Paleouss]

I missed one of your questions...

Genesis 1:31 is certainly true but does it require that everything in both the invisible, immaterial world and the visible, material world were "very good" at the end of the Creation or is Gen. 1:31 only speaking of the material universe, etc.?

Genesis 1:1-31 is a single, unified story of creation told in six chronological days. It is distinct from the more zeroed in version in Genesis 2:4. In other words, Genesis 1 is clearly meant as one whole story.

In Genesis 1:31 it says, "Then God saw everything that He had made". Everything He had made includes the story from start to finish. From the start of the story it says, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth...". So yes, the heavens (the invisible, immaterial world) is included in the one whole story (that is one whole account) and considered everything made "very good".

Peace to you brother

 

[Paleouss]

God provoked Satan to jealousy by inserting Adam into the garden and giving him dominion.

Satan 'fell' by orchestrating 'the fall'.

I haven't been reading all of your posts, so sorry if that would have answered my question.

1. Do you hold a Post-Creation, Pre-Edenic Fall Theory?

2. Or do you hold a relatively simultaneous fall theory?

Peace brother

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

I'm not sure if you are providing a counter to my point of Romans 5:12 or an additional "Amen". It seems like the former. If this is the case, then it also seems to be off the mark. If you remember, I was answering the question, "what doctrine would be affected by wrongly asserting exactly when Satan fell?l". In response to this I picked an example that was prior to the garden of Eden account (the Gap-theory).

So your point that the souls of angels do not die (nor do the souls of men, btw) has nothing to do with who brought sin and death into the world. If Satan brought sin and death into the world (regardless of whether he dies or not) prior to Adam and Eve, then mankind is only the "after the fact fix", or overlay, over the devastated earth already corrupted by sin and death. This would be counter to Romans 5:12.

Romans 5:12 basically tells us that physical death entered the cosmos strictly through Adam's sin. Any pre-Edenic theory undermines this by making physical death and natural evil a baseline feature of a previous, ruined fall.

Satan deceived Eve before she transgressed and ate of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Satan thus was the first being in the universe to sin against God. His doing so did not bring death into the material world.

Adam's sin that was subsequent to the sin of Satan and the transgression of Eve is what brought death into the material world.