‘Your Faith Has Saved You’

[DHK]

DHK




Someone might care to know what you think. I do not.

I can agree or disagree with what Protestant or anyone else says. That is the function of the board.

Protestant, OLd Regular, Rl Bosley, Rippon, Reformed,AA, and many others post things that I agree with.

looks like you do not enjoy their posts......good for you. I like what they say as they are quite biblical. They are honest and show a Christian ethic.

I am free to enter into what they say. I am also free to reject all manner of unbiblical teaching from whoever posts that.

You do not know what I have seen or not seen, so you are not in a position to comment on it.



Warning of what? I agree with a poster and there is a warning and a threat of censorship?

You have trouble answering different people on here ...so now you look to control everyones posts?

You don't read very carefully. I answered the other poster the same way I answered yours. But for clarity I added a bit more to yours.

I am in a perfect position to answer you.
I will spell it out for you, since you don't seem to get it.

This is a debate forum. It is not a place to call people names.
I have stated twice now, though in somewhat an oblique way, that there are no Pelagians or Arminians here. I awaited for some names. There were none forthcoming.
If you can name them, I can name the "baby-baptizing Augustinian worshipers." That was my reply. Inasmuch as you desire to peg non-Cals as Pelagian et.al., non-Cals are perfectly able to come back. That is not the purpose here. But I have said enough in spoon-feeding this to you. Don't reply to. Don't carry on. Post to the OP, not this post. Any attempt to justify your name-calling, and negative posts will just result in a deletion of your posts.

 

[savedbymercy]

Where the Calvinist errors is in the conflating of the drawing with the converting. All men will be drawn to Christ, not all men will be converted - born-again.

False statement ! Those who are drawn are those who are born again, and believe ! The word draw also means to be persuaded, which is what Faith is !

The word draw helkó means:

I drag, draw, pull, persuade, unsheathe.

And Faith, is the greek word pistis and means:

pístis (from 3982/peithô, "persuade, be persuaded") – properly, persuasion (be persuaded, come to trust); faith.

So your assertion is absolutely false and without scripture warrant, once one is being drawn they begin to come in Faith and persuasion ! So the all being drawn are converted to Faith in Christ , they come in Faith to Him !

 

[Rippon]

there are no Pelagians or Arminians here.

If not Pelagian, there are certainly some semi-Pelagians and Arminians here. Don't try to deny the obvious.

 

[steaver]

False statement ! Those who are drawn are those who are born again, and believe !

So your assertion is absolutely false and without scripture warrant, once one is being drawn they begin to come in Faith and persuasion ! So the all being drawn are converted to Faith in Christ , they come in Faith to Him !

False statement! Many are called, few are chosen. There was no such thing as born-again until after Jesus Christ was glorified...

He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified." (John 7)

To Peter Jesus said, "But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. (Luke 22:32)

So your assertion is absolutely false and without scripture warrant. It actually denies the scripture...

 

[Protestant]

False statement! Many are called, few are chosen. There was no such thing as born-again until after Jesus Christ was glorified...

He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified." (John 7)

To Peter Jesus said, "But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. (Luke 22:32)

So your assertion is absolutely false and without scripture warrant. It actually denies the scripture...

Was David denying Scripture when he prayed Cast me not away from your presence, and take not your Holy Spirit from me?

 

[Iconoclast]

False statement! Many are called, few are chosen. There was no such thing as born-again until after Jesus Christ was glorified...

He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified." (John 7)

To Peter Jesus said, "But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. (Luke 22:32)

So your assertion is absolutely false and without scripture warrant. It actually denies the scripture...

If there was no such thing as being born from above.....why did Jesus expect Nicodemus to know about these things.

 

[savedbymercy]

False statement! Many are called, few are chosen. There was no such thing as born-again until after Jesus Christ was glorified...

He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified." (John 7)

To Peter Jesus said, "But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. (Luke 22:32)

So your assertion is absolutely false and without scripture warrant. It actually denies the scripture...

Yeah you made a statement that was false!

 

[DHK]

If not Pelagian, there are certainly some semi-Pelagians and Arminians here. Don't try to deny the obvious.

However, it may be possible for a believer to fall from grace. This is in contrast to the Calvinist's Perseverance of the saints.

http://www.theopedia.com/arminianism

Don't deny the obvious. I don't know any Pelagian or Arminian on the board who is a Baptist. However, perhaps this thread was deliberately posted in this forum to include other religions. My statement was not referring to other denominations.
But what should I expect from a follower of an infant baptizing Augustinian disciple whose leader believed in baptismal regeneration?

 

[DHK]

If there was no such thing as being born from above.....why did Jesus expect Nicodemus to know about these things.

He was expected to know that salvation comes by faith as Jesus went on to clearly explain in John 3:16-18.

In the KJV Study Bible, a footnote or explanation given under Titus 3:5 gives this definition for "regeneration."

Regeneration refers to the work of the Holy Spirit in the salvation experience that produces new life in the believer. Toe express this concept, Jesus used the expression "born again" in His conversation with Nicodemus (John 3:3-7). Regeneration is the work of God, through the Holy Spirit, of placing in one who has faith a new nature, capable of doing God's will. The Holy Spirit is the agent or divine workman of this regeneration. His instrument is the Bible, which is likened to a hammer that judges sin (Jer.23:29), a mirror that reveals sin (James 1:23), a sword that defeats Satan (Heb.4:12), and a lamb that guides the believer (Ps.119:105).
ILLUSTRATION: People are instantaneously "born again" the moment they trust Christ as Saviour (1Pet.1:23).

It is a NT theological term and a person was not regenerated until after Pentecost.

 

[SovereignGrace]

He was expected to know that salvation comes by faith as Jesus went on to clearly explain in John 3:16-18.

In the KJV Study Bible, a footnote or explanation given under Titus 3:5 gives this definition for "regeneration."

It is a NT theological term and a person was not regenerated until after Pentecost.

So Abram believed God and did everything he did without being born again? David cried to God 'Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me,[Psa. 51:11] and yet he was not born again?

You guys have some very eerie doctrine.

 

[Protestant]

He was expected to know that salvation comes by faith as Jesus went on to clearly explain in John 3:16-18.

In the KJV Study Bible, a footnote or explanation given under Titus 3:5 gives this definition for "regeneration."

It is a NT theological term and a person was not regenerated until after Pentecost.

My New King James Study Bible teaches differently.

In John 3 there is a topic included titled: REGENERATION: THE NEW BIRTH.

Among other important teachings on the subject it says:

Regeneration is the gift of God’s grace. It is the immediate, supernatural work of the Holy Spirit wrought in us. Its effect is to quicken us to spiritual life from spiritual death. It changes the disposition of our souls, inclining our hearts to God. The fruit of regeneration is faith. Regeneration precedes faith.

In the Pelagian/Arminian model faith is that which motivates and activates the Holy Spirit to regenerate.

The seriousness of this error cannot be overstated for it teaches salvation by merit, which is salvation by justice, not grace.

Justice gives to each person what they deserve/merit.

Grace, on the other hand, gives to some that which they do not deserve/merit.

Scripture is clear. We are saved by grace, justified by grace and adopted into God’s family by grace.

All deserve condemnation. None deserve mercy.

These truths are elementary Christian truths which every Christian should acknowledge, embrace and praise God for His saving grace given us, the undeserving.

 

[steaver]

Was David denying Scripture when he prayed Cast me not away from your presence, and take not your Holy Spirit from me?

So you believe David was in fear of losing his salvation?

 

[steaver]

If there was no such thing as being born from above.....why did Jesus expect Nicodemus to know about these things.

He was a Pharisee! He was suppose to understand the scriptures. He should have known about the New Covenant (regeneration/new heart) that God was going to implement. Do you know about the New Covenant? Or do you believe there is only one? The old and the new being one in the same?

 

[DHK]

My New King James Study Bible teaches differently.

In the Pelagian/Arminian model faith is that which motivates and activates the Holy Spirit to regenerate.

It seems you haven't been reading very carefully.
It really doesn't matter what study Bible you are using or what you are trying to say in your posts.

As long as you are addressing Pelagians and Arminians you are speaking to the wind. You won't find any answers here. Why not post on a Catholic forum instead. Maybe you could even find a Hindu forum to hurl insults at.

 

[DHK]

So Abram believed God and did everything he did without being born again? David cried to God 'Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me,[Psa. 51:11] and yet he was not born again?

You guys have some very eerie doctrine.

Not us.
Deal with definitions, not fiction:

Regeneration refers to the work of the Holy Spirit in the salvation experience that produces new life in the believer. Toe express this concept, Jesus used the expression "born again" in His conversation with Nicodemus (John 3:3-7). Regeneration is the work of God, through the Holy Spirit, of placing in one who has faith a new nature, capable of doing God's will. The Holy Spirit is the agent or divine workman of this regeneration. His instrument is the Bible, which is likened to a hammer that judges sin (Jer.23:29), a mirror that reveals sin (James 1:23), a sword that defeats Satan (Heb.4:12), and a lamb that guides the believer (Ps.119:105).
ILLUSTRATION: People are instantaneously "born again" the moment they trust Christ as Saviour (1Pet.1:23).

 

[Rippon]

http://www.theopedia.com/arminianism

Don't deny the obvious. I don't know any Pelagian or Arminian on the board who is a Baptist.

Most Baptists are Semi-Pelagian. Even Roger Olson, who identifies himself as an Arminian says so.

On the BB StefanM goes along with four Remonstrant points.
Skandelon accepts the Arminian label.
Pipedude calls himself an Arminian.

But what should I expect from a follower of an infant baptizing Augustinian disciple whose leader believed in baptismal regeneration?

As a mod, you certainly go out of your way to stir things up. Unfortunately you have uttered untruths once more. But what's new about that?

 

[Iconoclast]

steaver

He was a Pharisee!

Not only that...he was THE TEACHER IN ISRAEL.....the definite article was used.
he was the main man.:thumbsup:

He was suppose to understand the scriptures.

yes he was. The scriptures he had were the OT.

He should have known about the New Covenant (regeneration/new heart) that God was going to implement.

He should have known that for sure, but that is not what Jesus said to him was it? Jesus did not mention the promise of what was to come, and He did not discuss the "newness" of the new covenant with him, did He.

He told Nicodemus that something already existed that he," the teacher" of Israel should have known already.
Jesus had not introduced anything new at this point. He asked him...and you do not know these things?

Do you know about the New Covenant?

yes... I have heard of this:thumbsup:

Or do you believe there is only one?

There is one Covenant of Redemption. it is progressively revealed in scripture and all other covenants fall under it.

2 Samuel 23:5

Although my house be not so with God; yet he hath made with me an everlasting covenant, ordered in all things, and sure: for this is all my salvation, and all my desire, although he make it not to grow.

The old and the new being one in the same?

there is a newness to the new covenant, but that is another discussion

 

[DHK]

Most Baptists are Semi-Pelagian. Even Roger Olson, who identifies himself as an Arminian says so.

On the BB StefanM goes along with four Remonstrant points.
Skandelon accepts the Arminian label.
Pipedude calls himself an Arminian.

As a mod, you certainly go out of your way to stir things up. Unfortunately you have uttered untruths once more. But what's new about that?

Most here identify themselves as Cals or non-cals.
The Pelagian position is accepted as heretical. To refer to any of us as such is totally against the rules, so why do it?
The Arminian position is generally accepted as one who can lose their salvation as pointed out by theopedia. I don't know of anyone among the Baptists who hold to that position. So, again it falls into the category of name calling or derogatory speech.

I am not stirring things up. Play within the rules or expect an infraction if it continues. Things have been getting out of hand lately. Please don't reply to this post. Don't derail this thread. Post to the OP.

 

[DHK]

Not us.
Deal with definitions, not fiction:

Regeneration refers to the work of the Holy Spirit in the salvation experience that produces new life in the believer. Toe express this concept, Jesus used the expression "born again" in His conversation with Nicodemus (John 3:3-7). Regeneration is the work of God, through the Holy Spirit, of placing in one who has faith a new nature, capable of doing God's will. The Holy Spirit is the agent or divine workman of this regeneration. His instrument is the Bible, which is likened to a hammer that judges sin (Jer.23:29), a mirror that reveals sin (James 1:23), a sword that defeats Satan (Heb.4:12), and a lamb that guides the believer (Ps.119:105).
ILLUSTRATION: People are instantaneously "born again" the moment they trust Christ as Saviour (1Pet.1:23).

Here is another definition given by Watson's Biblical and Theological Dictionary:

REGENERATION, a new birth; that work of the Holy Spirit by which we experience a change of heart. It is expressed in Scripture by being born again, Joh 3:7; born from above; being quickened, Eph 2:1; by Christ being formed in the heart, Ga 4:19; by our partaking of the divine nature, 2Pe 1:4. The efficient cause of regeneration is the divine Spirit. That man is not the author of it, is evident from Joh 1:12-13; 3:4; Eph 2:8,10. The instrumental cause is the word of God, Jas 1:18; 1Pe 1:23; 1Co 4:15. The change in regeneration consists in the recovery of the moral image of God upon the heart; that is to say, so as to love him supremely and serve him ultimately as our highest end, and to delight in him superlatively as our chief good. The sum of the moral law is to love the Lord our God with all our heart, and soul, and strength, and mind. This is the duty of every rational creature; and in order to obey it perfectly, no part of our inward affection or actual service ought to be, at any time, or in the least degree misapplied. Regeneration consists in the principle being implanted, obtaining the ascendancy, and habitually prevailing over its opposite. It may be remarked, that though the inspired writers use various terms and modes of speech in order to describe this change of mind, sometimes terming it conversion, regeneration, a new creation, or the new creature, putting off the old man with his deeds, and putting on the new man, walking not after the flesh, but after the Spirit, &c; yet it is all effected by the word of truth, or the Gospel of salvation, gaining an entrance into the mind, through divine teaching, so as to possess the understanding, subdue the will, and reign in the affections. In a word, it is faith working by love that constitutes the new creature, the regenerate man, Ga 5:6; 1Jo 5:1-5. Regeneration is to be distinguished from our justification, although it is connected with it. Every one who is justified, is also regenerated; but the one places us in a new relation, and the other in a new moral state. Our Lord, in one instance, uses the term regeneration for the resurrection state: "Ye which have followed me, in the regeneration, when the Son of man shall sit on the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging," Mt 19:28. And, accordingly, Dr. Campbell translates the passage thus: "At the renovation, when the Son of man shall be seated on the glorious throne, ye, my followers, sitting also upon twelve thrones, shall judge." We are accustomed, says he to apply the term solely to the conversion of individuals; whereas its relation here is to the general state of things. The principal completion will be at the general resurrection, when there will be, in the most important sense, a renovation or regeneration of heaven and earth, when all things shall become new.

 

[Protestant]

It seems you haven't been reading very carefully.
It really doesn't matter what study Bible you are using or what you are trying to say in your posts.

As long as you are addressing Pelagians and Arminians you are speaking to the wind. You won't find any answers here. Why not post on a Catholic forum instead. Maybe you could even find a Hindu forum to hurl insults at.

Citing B. R. Rees, ed., The Letters of Pelagius and His Followers (Woodbridge, England: The Boydell Press, 1991), Dr. Michael Horton (Professor of Theology and Apologetics, Westminster Seminary, CA) expounds Pelagianism as it relates to modern-day evangelic preaching:

When evangelists appeal to the unbeliever as though it was his choice that determines his destiny, they are not only operating on Arminian assumptions, but Pelagian assumptions……. Whenever it is maintained that an unbeliever is capable by nature of choosing God, or that men and women are capable of not sinning or of reaching a state of moral perfection, that's Pelagianism. Finney even preached a sermon titled, "Sinners Bound To Change Their Own Hearts." When preachers attack those who insist that the human problem is sinfulness and the wickedness of the human heart-that's Pelagianism. When one hears the argument, whether from the Enlightenment (Kant's "ought implies can"), or from Wesley, Finney, or modern teachers, that "God would never have commanded the impossible," they are echoing the very words of Pelagius. Those who deny that faith is the gift of God are not merely Arminians or Semi-Pelagians, but Pelagians.

Source:

http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/pelagiannatural.html

Do you deny that you, and other members of the Board, teach the very doctrines of Pelagius as outlined (in bold type) by Dr. Horton?