I don't believe anyone in the Baptist Camp on this board believes in the totality of that quote.
Don't derail this subject again, or answer this post. Post to the OP, or your post will also be deleted, as others already have been.
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‘Your Faith Has Saved You’
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I don't believe anyone in the Baptist Camp on this board believes in the totality of that quote.
Don't derail this subject again, or answer this post. Post to the OP, or your post will also be deleted, as others already have been.
> bumpity bump <
False statement!
I gave supporting scripture which has not been refuted because it cannot be.
Are you saying David would have been an Arminian that believes God can take away his salvation?
savedbymercy
New Member
The scripture you gave is fine, but the comments of yours are false!
Yes, that is what a Pharisee was, a TEACHER IN ISRAEL...
Really? Thanks, nobody new this.....
You are not reading the text very well...
That is exactly what Jesus said to him...."Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
The prophecy of the New Covenant already existed. Nic's answer should have been "tell me more" but Nic was not there to learn more about the New Covenant, but to argue for the old.
Exactly! Part of that "progression" is the implementation of the rebirth!! Calvinist miss the whole point of Jesus Ministry which was to usher in the spiritual kingdom of God, the beginning of "Christ in you". No man can enter into heaven except he be "born again". Paradise was not the abode of God.
and that is another false comment!
Protestant
Well-Known Member
The OP concerns the origin of saving, justifying faith.
If the origin of saving, justifying faith lies within man, then it is man who has the ultimate power over his salvation, choosing either for Christ or against Christ.
If man has the ultimate power, then God’s will must be subservient to man’s will.
But the very definition of what constitutes a sovereign God negates any possibility that He is dependent on man for anything…….including man’s making a good or bad decision for Christ and thereby determining his election or reprobation.
This truth is found throughout Scripture, but for brevity’s sake I will cite Romans 9:15-16:
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Paul is citing OT Scripture to prove the doctrine of election is not a new, strange doctrine of the NT.
When the Lord states, ‘I will on whom I will’, He is excluding the will of anyone else as a contributing factor to aid in his decision-making process.
This truth is expounded by Paul when he states, ‘So then it is not of him that willeth…. but of God that sheweth mercy,' meaning man’s free-will decision plays no part whatsoever in God’s decision to have mercy upon one man and not another.
When this essential truth is rightly understood the Christian reader will surely discern the errors of ‘Decisional Regeneration,’ election according to foreseen faith, as well as man’s sovereignty in determining his eternal destiny.
The reason the divine truth regarding God’s choosing His Elect before they were born is so distasteful to many professing Christians is due to the fact that since the fall of Adam man seeks to be his own god, having the ultimate freedom to choose or reject: including the choosing or rejecting of Christ.
To hear that the Bible teaches it is the Lord who makes the ultimate decision as to whom He will choose and whom He will reject is antithetical to the godhood of man.
As a result, this truth frequently lands on deaf ears within the professing Christian community.
Prior to regeneration all men reject the sovereign Godhood of the Lord.
However, after regeneration we Christians become ever so grateful and ever so humble that we undeserving lost sinners were chosen for mercy despite our rebellious God-hating ways.
Though we once lived under the mantra, ‘My will be done,’ we now live under the prayer, ‘Thy will be done.’
But David could not have been saved per your doctrine mon ami.
:applause::applause::applause::thumbs:
steaver;
What you missed here was that N should have known this teaching from the OT teaching....not something new.
Here is what you miss again Steaver;
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
Jesus did not introduce any new teaching here...he says N should have already known about the new birth
He did not argue for the old anywhere in the passage...you insert that idea.
Jesus did not say he was .....a .....teacher in Israel...He said THE...you missed it totally.
Really? Thanks, nobody new this.....
What you missed here was that N should have known this teaching from the OT teaching....not something new.
I am....you miss it.
Here is what you miss again Steaver;
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
Jesus did not introduce any new teaching here...he says N should have already known about the new birth
He did not argue for the old anywhere in the passage...you insert that idea.
Why not?
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith." (Ro1)
According to your doctrine which sites David's cry to God as proof of him having the regeneration of the Holy Spirit, David believed he could lose his salvation.
Jesus' exchange with Nic is blowing right over top of your head due to your Calvinistic glasses which dim the light of the scriptures. Jesus is the head Master of Israel, He was setting Nic in his proper place.
No one is saved without the Spirit and no one has the Spirit without being regenerated, steaver.
You are avoiding answering about David. Calvinist like to point to David's cry to God as proof of regeneration in the OT. So why was David afraid of losing his salvation?
The Bible does not use the term "justifying faith." It is faith that justifies.
Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
--Never does it say or even infer that it is "God's faith." In fact in Hab.2:4, it explicitly says "his faith" referring the Israelites' faith that justifies him.
Hab 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
--It is by his own faith that a just person shall both be justified and shall live a just life.
A false conclusion based on a false premise. Salvation is all of God.
Your definition of "sovereign" is skewed. God in his sovereignty allows for free will. He is not dependent upon man but knows in his omniscience what man will choose. That doesn't mean he affects or effects the choice of man. It is still man's choice. Man chooses his own destination, not God.
Rather you are citing scripture out of context; scripture that explicitly deals with God's dealing with Israel in history. God shows mercy on all. This was demonstrated on the cross. He "so loved the world..."
His will is that all men be saved.
His will is that none perish.
His will is that all men should come to repentance.
His will is made very clear in the NT.
His mercy is spoken of over and over in the entire Bible but is rejected by the Calvinist because of a few verses taken out of context in a couple of places.
To find out about the mercy of the Lord read the book of Psalms. His mercy endures forever.
He is merciful on all those that believe. Was God merciful to you? Or, are you not yet sure that you are one of the elect? How can you know for sure?
The understanding of God's infinite mercy will decide an understanding of salvation?? Then perhaps you don't understand salvation??
There is only some truth to this statement. It is true of many, but not all.
Cornelius sought the truth; sought God, and God revealed himself to him. Therefore the above is false.
According to Romans 1:18-20, unsaved man had the truth but then rejected it.
There is no place in scripture which states that man is not able to seek God, and not able to find God, and not able to repent. In fact in Acts 17:30 he is commanded to repent. In Acts 17:27 he is told to seek God and told that he might find him because God is not far from him. The same truths are taught in Romans 10.
This monergistic position makes God the author of evil and absolves man of any responsibility to God. Go ahead and sin. Eat, drink, and be merry. It is God's fault. God is responsible. God did it. This is monergism--voiding man of any responsibility by taking away his power to choose and giving it all to God.
There are at least two faults with this premise.
One, it cannot be proved. Never is there any example of any person who is regenerated before he is saved. Show me a person who is regenerated before he is saved--who has the Spirit of God before salvation. He is "saved" before he is "saved." Nonsense!"
Second, regeneration is a theological term used exclusively for NT saints after Pentecost. It is what the Spirit does in a believer only after the Spirit came at Pentecost. That means that not even John the Baptist was regenerated, much less all the heroes of faith mentioned in Hebrews chapter 11. Not one of them were regenerated, but the Bible says they all had faith, and great faith. Yet, they were not regenerated. You have a problem.
Moses had even a bigger problem. He could see God face to face, but was not regenerated. I suppose he never had faith according to Calvinism. Absurd isn't it?
Faith always precedes regeneration, and there is not one verse in the Bible that says otherwise.
savedbymercy
New Member
dhk
False and invalid statement, the object of one Faith Justifies, which is God Rom 8:33
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Rom 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him[God] that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Faith believes that God did the Justifying !
False and invalid statement, the object of one Faith Justifies, which is God Rom 8:33
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Rom 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him[God] that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Faith believes that God did the Justifying !
From the Calvinist Dictionary:
Free Will: Something that can’t exist because it would make God helpless if true.
faith (1): Something that the elect are zapped with after regeneration.
faith (2): A work that gives pride to Arminians.
It is your understanding of God's sovereignty that is skewed.
Go To Isaiah chapters 40-48 especially. His sovereignty is laid out very well there.
40:21-23
: Do you not know?
Have you not heard?
Has it not been told you from the beginning?
Have you not understood since the earth was founded?
He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,
and its people are like grasshoppers.
He stretches out the heavens like a canopy,
and spreads them out like a tent to live in.
He brings princes to naught
and reduces the rulers of this world to nothing.
42:8 : I am the Lord; that is my name!
I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols.
43:7,8 : everyone who is called by my name,
who I created for my glory,
whom I formed and made.
Lead out those who have eyes but are blind,
who have ears but are deaf.
10c-11 : Before me no god was formed,
nor will there be one after me.
I, even I, am the Lord,
and apart from me
there is no savior.
13: No one can deliver out of my hand.
When I act, who can reverse it?
44:6 : I am the first and the last;
apart from me there is no God.
45:5 : I am the Lord, and there is no other;
apart from me there is no God.
verse 7 : I form the light and creat darkness
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the Lord, do all these things.
verse 9: woe to him who quarrels with his Maker.
46:5: To whom will you compare me
or count me equal?
To whom will you liken me
that we may be compared?
verses 9,10 : I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like me.I make known the end from the beginning,
In am God, and there is none like me.
I make known the end from the beginning,
from ancient times, what is still to come.
I say: My purpose will stand,
and I will do all that I please.
11b : What I have said, that will I bring about;
what I have planed, that will I do.
48:11: For my own sake, I do this.
How can I I let myself be defamed?
I will not yield my glory to another.
11: I am the first and the last.
Man is not sovereign and in charge of his life. God rules over everything and everyone. There is no such doctrine as free-will taught in the Scripture. It is a concoction, an invention from the mind of sinful men.
That is an absurdity that any wordling would say.
Have you never heard of predestination? It is God who predestines --not man.
God delights in mercy. However the Word of God explicitly tells us in Romans 9 :I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
: Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
The Lord bears with great patience the objects of his wrath --prepared for destruction and He makes the riches of His glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory.
So clearly the Lord mercies some and not each and every person --past, present, and future.
Your entire paragraph is a complete lie and you very well know it. Yet you persist in your old ways. Why do you not tell the truth? Telling the truth is characteristic of Christians.
This is a red flag and you brethren are talking about a C/A Topic and this should be moved to the C/A Forum... Brother Glen
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