‘Your Faith Has Saved You’

[Iconoclast]

DHK

Perhaps you are the one off topic? You sound confused.

Of course i will sound off topic to you as we do not believe the same things at all. I would be nervous if you agreed with me as I believe you are dangerously departing from the Faith once delivered to the saints.

Lets examine your claim....

Actually, you sound like the campaign manager of a politician writing up negative attack ads and then cheering them on

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When these men offer solid teaching that I am in substantial agreement with I usually do not need to add to what they say. I am content to just offer encouragment.

What comes of as negative ....to you...is negative by design.

I have asked you for two years to stop posting falsehoods as you do every week.
I am not talking about verses you offer although they are often misguided....I am talking about you bearing false witness against me and all the other Cals who interact with you.....

Have you noticed many no longer interact with you? They tell me they see you as being dishonest, and no longer want to post to you.
It is not as if they have not answered you well...they just see your non teachable spirit.

You don't add anything to the conversation, just parrot what others say, especially the negative comments, editing out anything positive. Sad outlook you have.

If you notice....I do add to the conversation with anyone who asks a sincere question, desiring a sincere answer. there are sometimes new posters who have not even heard some of these issues...I will offer them all manner of scriptural answers, links and sermons...{which you have rejected when offered}
With my job I am able to listen to many sermons each day, and have many I can recommend.
I have a descent Library so I can offer good links for those who desire that.

You insert yourself into these conversations with your anti-cal Jihad and then when we answer back...you delete the posts, or threaten infractions, give infractions, or worse yet...bear false witness...a 9th commandment violation.

At that point the thread is off track...and we now must defend against what you try and inflict upon us...which was not what should have been going on in the first place....

I have asked the administrators to observe these interactions...at first they notice the harsh tone..WE USE.....toward you. That is because many of them do not normally look at these posts normally, they look at politics or history, or other threads so they do not see the pattern of what you do and how you operate. They do not enjoy reading many old posts to see what we are saying.

As they begin to see it they try and defend you....as you are one of their friends....they ask us...WHY are YOu unhappy? what is making you complain? as if we are disgruntled... we tell them we want an honest interaction and no censorship from you.

You call our God and how we understand Him.....a Monster. I believe this is against the rules here...and yet you have done this and worse.

To the subject at hand, however, you are confused.
Faith is faith.

One of us is confused and I know who it is.

There is no "justifying faith." Find the phrase in the Bible.
There is no "saving faith." Find the phrase in the Bible.

The teaching is clearly in the bible on both of these phrases.

5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Faith here is the instrumentality.It is a gift of God as is repentance, and a new heart , all as part of regeneration which all happen together at a point in time.

Saving faith is also taught as there is a contrast with those who do not have a saving belief....they believe..IN VAIN...
1cor15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

Paul says...some can believe In vain, to no purpose, in a non saving way.

That teaches that there is a way the leads to life ...saving belief as compared witha natural human trust that you speak about when you say...faith is just faith...proverbs speaks of your way;

prov14
12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

I believe God repeated this in prov 16 just for someone like you...you think your way...seems right-

25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Since you can't, you will have to admit that faith is faith. Once you learn what faith is you will be better off and not so confused.

Oh but I can as I have learned the difference....try reading the parable of the sower again and learn how there is a saving faith that endures and non saving believe that does not.

God does not give you the faith to believe.

God has indeed given me repentance and faith,,,I did not have it.

He does not give the unregenerate faith to believe as SG claims

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All unregenerate men who are saved, are given saving faith.that is how they go from unregenerate to regenerate....they are moved upon by the Spirit who performs a supernatural heart transplant that you deny and call "mystical" ...remember???:thumbsup:

God does not do the believing for a person. That would be futile and ludicrous.

No one said He does.....when God enables us.....we repent and believe the gospel.

I agreed one of us is confused...can you see who it is now?:love2:

Yet that is the typical claim of the Calvinist, and it has no scriptural basis.
Show me the scripture where it says God gives faith to the unregenerate.
Can't do it.

Acts 11 will suffice:
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.


Acts13 is a bonus verse;
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Acts 16 is a cherry on top;
14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.

Show me one example of a person who is regenerated and yet unsaved.
Can't do it.

all regenerated persons a re saved...where do you get this strange idea?

Show me a person in the Bible who has God's Spirit because of regeneration, but is not saved. Can't do it.

Why would I do that? I do not believe that! Can you show any post where I said that AT ALL? this is what i am talking about...I have never said any such thing, nor would I.:laugh:

You see, it is obvious that faith precedes regeneration, and not the other way around.

Never, not once...we are never saved...because of faith
we are only said to be saved...By... or through faith...do you understand the difference?

If it didn't you would be able to prove it via answering the questions I just posed to you. But you have no answers.

I never have any trouble answering you:laugh: i do not even have to delete or censor your posts to do it!

Faith doesn't come from God.

This is your problem ,at least one of them...sure it does

In the Bible, if faith must come from God it comes in the form of a spiritual gift or as the fruit of Spirit, neither of which He would ever give to the unregenerate

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Spiritual gifts are a different discussion altogether.

So God does not give faith to the unregenerate.

yes he does

He does not give His spiritual gifts to the unsaved. But yet the Calvinists demand that he does. How ridiculous a theology!!

No calvinist says this...strawman again

 

[DHK]

I believe every word in God's bible, and unlike you, every verse belongs to me. I do not believe in your grotesque wrangling, twisting, mangling, fragmenting of God's word.

You simply mean you are too lazy to look at the context of the Scripture you use and really don't care.

When someone says:
"The Bible says, 'There is no god'" You should believe them, because they are correct. It says exactly that. You should agree. Don't bother to look at the context. Why should you? You don't look at the context or consider the context of the scripture you quote. When I give you the context I get the above remarks which you just assailed at me. Pitiful!

You say that some verses do not apply to us, but to Israel and their restoration. I've got some news for you, mon ami , ~2,000 years ago Israel was restored by a Man hanging, bleeding, and dying, on an old rugged cross and was resurrected and ascended to the Father. Israel has ALREADY been restored.

Israel was not restored then. Israel was scattered. She was dispersed as a nation just a few years later when Titus came and destroyed the city and the Temple. There was no nation, no Temple. Judgment had come upon the nation.
If, as you say, Israel was restored at that time (29 A.D.), then Paul had lost his mind and must have been a lunatic.
Why would he pray for his nation, Israel, that they might be saved--the nation that received the law, the covenants and the promises. Both in Romans 9:1-5 and in 10:1-5 he prays for their salvation. This is in ca. 62 A.D. But you say they have been restored. They don't need salvation. How wrong you are.
There will come a day when as a nation, "all Israel shall be saved." That day has not come. When has "all Israel been saved"? Never!
Your blindness and seemingly hatred of dispensationalism has led you into error. Even MacArthur, a zealous Calvinist, will not give up dispensational truth. You ought to read his commentaries. In no way does he consider Israel restored, and in no way does Paul consider Israel restored, when he says blindness has come to them. How does blindness = restored?

You are a poison pill that your flock ingest on a routine basis. My prayers go to them to flee from your vile teachings.

At least they have the truth that is constantly being preached to them.

I note that in this post you took the time to launch one huge ad hominem against me, but you couldn't address any of the scriptural points that I gave to you. Sad indeed.

 

[Iconoclast]

You simply mean you are too lazy to look at the context of the Scripture you use and really don't care.

When someone says:
"The Bible says, 'There is no god'" You should believe them, because they are correct. It says exactly that. You should agree. Don't bother to look at the context. Why should you? You don't look at the context or consider the context of the scripture you quote. When I give you the context I get the above remarks which you just assailed at me. Pitiful!


Israel was not restored then. Israel was scattered. She was dispersed as a nation just a few years later when Titus came and destroyed the city and the Temple. There was no nation, no Temple. Judgment had come upon the nation.
If, as you say, Israel was restored at that time (29 A.D.), then Paul had lost his mind and must have been a lunatic.
Why would he pray for his nation, Israel, that they might be saved--the nation that received the law, the covenants and the promises. Both in Romans 9:1-5 and in 10:1-5 he prays for their salvation. This is in ca. 62 A.D. But you say they have been restored. They don't need salvation. How wrong you are.
There will come a day when as a nation, "all Israel shall be saved." That day has not come. When has "all Israel been saved"? Never!
Your blindness and seemingly hatred of dispensationalism has led you into error. Even MacArthur, a zealous Calvinist, will not give up dispensational truth. You ought to read his commentaries. In no way does he consider Israel restored, and in no way does Paul consider Israel restored, when he says blindness has come to them. How does blindness = restored?


At least they have the truth that is constantly being preached to them.

I note that in this post you took the time to launch one huge ad hominem against me, but you couldn't address any of the scriptural points that I gave to you. Sad indeed.

SG has been very patient with you and has answered every point. After awhile no one likes your method of interaction.....look at all of our posts...

the complaint is more about you...not as much about dispensationalism , although many of us have pulled away from that also.

John M is fine and I have learned much from him and still do...even if we do not agree on this one doctrine.....it is an acceptable teaching in that many hold it....but many also hold the historic views,

Do you see any of us going after Saggy woman, Clint K, Dr,Bob, Squire, I am blessed??? I have not seen it...why is that? Guess what ,,,as far as I know only Dr.Bob agrees with our soteriology.....so it is not like we just go looking to attack....mostly we defend:wavey:

 

[DHK]

When these men offer solid teaching that I am in substantial agreement with I usually do not need to add to what they say. I am content to just offer encouragment.

Negative encouragement (not positive) to false teaching. But you can't offer your own ideas because you have none. So perhaps being silent would be better.

I have asked you for two years to stop posting falsehoods as you do every week.

You want me to convert to Calvinism. It is not going to happen.
In effect you are saying Wesley was a heretic, and others like him.
Every non-Cal on this board, to you, is posting false-hoods. You are breaking the rules for making such statements.

I am not talking about verses you offer although they are often misguided....I am talking about you bearing false witness against me and all the other Cals who interact with you.....

You are wrong.

they just see your non teachable spirit.

Have you looked in the mirror lately.

If you notice....I do add to the conversation with anyone who asks a sincere question, desiring a sincere answer. there are sometimes new posters who have not even heard some of these issues...I will offer them all manner of scriptural answers, links and sermons...{which you have rejected when offered}
With my job I am able to listen to many sermons each day, and have many I can recommend.
I have a descent Library so I can offer good links for those who desire that.

You insert yourself into these conversations with your anti-cal Jihad and then when we answer back...you delete the posts, or threaten infractions, give infractions, or worse yet...bear false witness...a 9th commandment violation.

Again, have you looked into the mirror lately.
Who is on the Calvinistic jihad?

At that point the thread is off track...and we now must defend against what you try and inflict upon us...which was not what should have been going on in the first place....

I have asked the administrators to observe these interactions...at first they notice the harsh tone..WE USE.....toward you.

Then why are you posting against the rules?

That is because many of them do not normally look at these posts normally, they look at politics or history, or other threads so they do not see the pattern of what you do and how you operate. They do not enjoy reading many old posts to see what we are saying.

Now you are claiming you know the hearts and motives of these moderators and administrators. That is quite a claim Icon.

As they begin to see it they try and defend you....as you are one of their friends....they ask us...WHY are YOu unhappy? what is making you complain? as if we are disgruntled... we tell them we want an honest interaction and no censorship from you.

This is a big assumption. In fact it is close to a claim of omniscience. How would you know this? Are you privy to their thoughts and actions?

You call our God and how we understand Him.....a Monster. I believe this is against the rules here...and yet you have done this and worse.

Is not the God who deliberately and "lovingly" creates mankind in his own image just for the very purpose of casting him into the Lake of Fire a "monstrous" God? Of course he is. That is my opinion. Live with it! Are you trying to change your own constitution and take away freedom of speech??

Do you liken God to King Manasseh who took his children and sacrificed them to a false god by burning them in a fire. It sounds like it, with your horrible doctrine of reprobation. I call it like I see it, and you don't like it. So what!

The teaching is clearly in the bible on both of these phrases.

Very clear. The two terms are not found in the Bible, and neither you nor SG will be humble enough to admit it. The statement I made is neither term "saving faith" nor "justifying faith" is found in the Bible. Have you found one verse where those actual terms are in the Bible? No, you haven't.

5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Faith here is the instrumentality.It is a gift of God as is repentance, and a new heart , all as part of regeneration which all happen together at a point in time.

Saving faith is also taught as there is a contrast with those who do not have a saving belief....they believe..IN VAIN...
1cor15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

Paul says...some can believe In vain, to no purpose, in a non saving way.

That teaches that there is a way the leads to life ...saving belief as compared witha natural human trust that you speak about when you say...faith is just faith...proverbs speaks of your way;

prov14
12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

I believe God repeated this in prov 16 just for someone like you...you think your way...seems right-

25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

I am well aware what the Bible teaches on faith. You are not so aware what I believe, and deliberately remain ignorant as you post indicates.

Oh but I can as I have learned the difference....try reading the parable of the sower again and learn how there is a saving faith that endures and non saving believe that does not.

I understand the parable without your comments.

God has indeed given me repentance and faith,,,I did not have it.

I don't know what God gave you. I know this. He doesn't give faith to the unregenerate. You were not regenerated before you believed. Do you think there are a number of regenerated but unsaved people running around on the earth?

All unregenerate men who are saved, are given saving faith.that is how they go from unregenerate to regenerate....they are moved upon by the Spirit who performs a supernatural heart transplant that you deny and call "mystical" ...remember???

Faith is faith. Without faith there is no regeneration or new birth. That is what Jesus taught. He taught it in John 1:12 and Peter taught it in 1Pet.1:23-25, and James taught it in James 1:18. It is doubtful that you have an answer for all of those scriptures. Regeneration comes via faith. Faith always comes first. Again, do you think there are many regenerated but unsaved people running around on the earth?

 

[DHK]

No one said He does.....when God enables us.....we repent and believe the gospel.

I agreed one of us is confused...can you see who it is now?

You said he does. You said God must regenerate you first. If God must regenerate you before you believe then it is God that gives you the faith to believe, or is doing the believing for you. It is a forced conversion. Yes, you are very confused about salvation.

Acts 11 will suffice:
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

You forgot "as on us at the beginning." This was the first time that the gospel went to the Gentiles. Salvation had been "granted" to the Gentiles as it had been "granted" to the Jews at Pentecost. This was the "Pentecost" of the Gentiles, so to speak. It was a historic moment. It would never again be repeated in history.

Look at the verses you left out:
Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. (i.e. Pentecost)
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Act 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
--Peter tried to withstand God, not really wanting to go to the Gentiles. But God forced his hand. Repentance (that is salvation) had now had come to the Gentiles.

Acts13 is a bonus verse;
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Acts 16 is a cherry on top;
14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.

These say nothing about regeneration preceding faith.

all regenerated persons a re saved...where do you get this strange idea?

A regenerated person is a saved person. He is not given faith to be resaved once again.

Why would I do that? I do not believe that! Can you show any post where I said that AT ALL? this is what i am talking about...I have never said any such thing, nor would I.

If God gives faith only after regeneration, then it is God doing the believing isn't it? It is a forced salvation. What did you do to be regenerated? How did that happen? Sit in a yoga position and just let the mysticism happen??

Never, not once...we are never saved...because of faith
we are only said to be saved...By... or through faith...do you understand the difference?

"For by grace are you saved through faith..." Faith is the means of salvation.
Salvation is by faith. That is what sola fide is all about. You seem to reject that great reformation truth. Faith is always before regeneration.

I never have any trouble answering you:

Actually you do. That is why you must use so many "laugh" icons. They indicate a lack of words.

This is your problem ,at least one of them...sure it does
.
Spiritual gifts are a different discussion altogether.

yes he does

Scriptural truth is your problem. Spiritual gifts are not a different discussion as faith is a spiritual gift and that is the only kind of faith (along with the fruit of the Spirit) that God actually gives. So if your position remains that God gives the unregenerate faith, your position is that God gives spiritual gifts to the unbeliever which is a contrary position to the Word of God.

 

[SovereignGrace]

SG has been very patient with you and has answered every point. After awhile no one likes your method of interaction.....look at all of our posts...

the complaint is more about you...not as much about dispensationalism , although many of us have pulled away from that also.

John M is fine and I have learned much from him and still do...even if we do not agree on this one doctrine.....it is an acceptable teaching in that many hold it....but many also hold the historic views,

Do you see any of us going after Saggy woman, Clint K, Dr,Bob, Squire, I am blessed??? I have not seen it...why is that? Guess what ,,,as far as I know only Dr.Bob agrees with our soteriology.....so it is not like we just go looking to attack....mostly we defend:wavey:

He does not realize the Israel I was referring to as being restored is the spiritual Jew, the inward Jew , the circumcision of the heart. That dispensationial straight jacket is blurring his view.

 

[Iconoclast]

You want me to convert to Calvinism. It is not going to happen.
In effect you are saying Wesley was a heretic, and others like him.
Every non-Cal on this board, to you, is posting false-hoods. You are breaking the rules for making such statements.

here is a perfect example DHK ...this is exactly what I am trying to explain to you...observe....

You want me to convert to Calvinism.

That is God's business. I can convert no one to anything. I do not ask anyone to "convert" on any doctrine as I understand God must allow a person to see it spiritually.

I am to be faithful to the texts of scripture and declare the truth , the results belong to God.

It is not going to happen.

That is up to God...between you and Him.

In effect you are saying Wesley was a heretic

This is in your mind. I said no such thing. Spurgeon believed he would be in heaven and wrote that. I never met him so how would I make such a judgment?

because you have this thought in your head...DOES NOT MEAN...you can say that is what I am thinking. THIS is The VERY exact thing we are telling you to stop doing...it is wrong...now it leads to this next wrong statement;

and others like him.
Every non-Cal on this board, to you, is posting false-hoods

again...this is in your head... you are free to think what you want...so am I

however keep in mind you are supposed to function as a moderator...
not the thought police

Then you conclude with this;

You are breaking the rules for making such statements.

I did not make the statements in the first place...this is all in your head, I never said any of these things you post about me.

I might believe some of these things, or most of these things, or not.

But unless I post it...I do not need you to volunteer to be my spokesman...you are not good at that at all...this is why we do not like your seedy posting and censorship.

 

[Iconoclast]

He does not realize the Israel I was referring to as being restored is the spiritual Jew, the inward Jew , the circumcision of the heart. That dispensationial straight jacket is blurring his view.

Yes...in that system you get locked in to the system which is like a house of cards...

I have a book by this man named STAM...called rightly dividing the word of truth.

he goes on to wrongly fragment the truth....

it is like a church with a billboard saying we are a loving church and you go in and the people are as cold as an iceberg:wavey:

 

[DHK]

I refuse to participate in a gang-up on moderator thread.
Some people have trouble keeping on topic.
This thread is closed.