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“Show me a person who believes in Noah’s ark and I will show you a Trump voter,”
- Thread starter Calminian
- Start date
KeyserSoze
Member
I had a feeling you'd start backpedaling. Nice try though.
No backpedaling..
I stand by my comment.
First you say they haven't researched then you say you don't like their conclusions. You're tripping backwards. If you had a good argument against the flood you would have offered it.
KeyserSoze
Member
They havent "researched" it.. They dont conduct research.. They conduct religious apologetics.
Had they "researched it" they wouldnt be creationists
KeyserSoze
Member
I see that you have never read "science and creationism, a view from the National Academy of Science" which lays out in great detail why a global flood is impossible..?
There are a zillion "good arguments" which show the impossibility of the Global flood scenario..
Which is why no geology organization on earth accepts it as valid.
KeyserSoze
Member
And like most blind faith skeptics, you avoid making one.
I can make an easy one.
Human history alone disproves the Noah flood.
Humans have a long and documented history on this planet.
There are human cultures that date back long before 4400 years ago, and those cultures were never wiped out by a global deluge.
The Chinese, the Egyptians, the Tribes of Northern Iraq, the Vietnamese , etc... All have societies that date back well before the alleged "Noah flood" and none of them were ever wiped out.. They have long and continuous uninterrupted histories.
How could there have been a "global flood" and the entire country of China didnt notice it..? lol
This is why if you ever read AiGs "statement of faith" page, they tell you that they not only wont accept any science that proves them wrong, but they refuse to accept History as well..
Which is pretty sad really...
Hmmm. So you tout science, but then make an argument from history. Typical, but very well. Strictly speaking this is not a scientific debate, but actually a historical debate.
Flood legends that corroborate the biblical account are perhaps some of the the most convincing historical evidences for the flood. You have to ask your self, why so many legends about a man and his family on a boat with animals? The obvious answers is, these all stem from a common historical event.
Below is a video on this fascinating topic (for those interested).
KeyserSoze
Member
No, because flood legends all have differences in both time and scale.
The reason why there are flood legends is because humans need fresh water to survive so they routinely set up civilizations near fresh water sources.. water sources which inevitably will flood.. That however does NOT mean that all floods were at the same time, nor of the same scope..
And NONE of that alters my original point..
If the flood was global, and EVERYONE DIED 4400 years ago, then why didn't anyone in China and Egypt notice..?
There are none.
Telling. B.B. does not have ads. You got malware infected at.......most likely.... porn sites.
No, you obviously don't know what legends are. I suggest Charles Martin's book for you. It'll make you a better skeptic.
So we have flood legends of a family in a boat with animals, preserving the world because we need fresh water to survive.
Wow. Sorry, I just don't have the blind faith to believe something so silly. Do you really believe what you just said?
And even Chinese flood legend agrees with me.
Chinese Flood Legend
KeyserSoze
Member
The original flood legend is the epic of gilgamesh.
It predates the Noah tale by centuries and the flood in the original version was NOT "global"
Just a farmer putting some of his livestock on a raft and drifting down the currents to safety.
The Jews took this earlier tale, embellished it, and used it as a teaching tool demonstrating the concept of how the moral will triumph while the wicked will perish. (as the jewish people routinely did with stories)
Its a fable.. The fact that fables circulated in a time when all people had to entertain themselves with was talking..
It is not evidence of a global flood.. lol
There used to be.
How long ago?
Gilgamesh is older than the Mosaic compiling of the book of Genesis. However, it's clear from the biblical record that all the events of Genesis happened before Moses was born. Therefore he had to get the story from preexisting documents.
There is also very good internal textual evidence that Genesis was compiled from preexisting documents based on the toledoth statements that occur all throughout the account.
If you want to further educate yourself on this, google "genesis tablet theory", or "wiseman hypothesis". The best article on this might be this one:
The Tablet Theory of Genesis Authorship
Curt Sewell
Toledoth statements are usually translated "these are the generations of" or "these are the histories of." These statements are often attached to a patriarchs name, "this is the book of the accounts of Adam" for instance. It's interesting that the various names of patriarchs might actually be the individual authors of the original documents Moses used. They include Adam, Noah and Shem, which means the first few documents may have been written before the flood and preserved on the Ark. That's old!
Eventually, these documents (probably clay tablets) were acquired by Moses and compiled into the book of Genesis we have today.
Wait I thought you said the Jews needed fresh water to survive, so they made up a flood story. Now you're saying only the jews copied a prior legend. Your story is changing and unraveling fast.
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KeyserSoze
Member
Everyone needs fresh water to survive.. Which is why there are flood myths in many regions.
Thats where people live.. Near fresh water that floods..
As for that other nonsense, No.. I never claimed that that the Jews "made up" the flood story. They took an earlier myth about a localized flood that was NOT global, and turned it into the Noah tale..
Thats why the Genesis flood myth is different than other tales from different parts of the globe. geez..
Therefore everyone makes up legends about families in boats saving themselves and animals. Got it!
Genesis is different from all other flood legends? That's what your research concluded? Methinks you haven't researched this.
KeyserSoze
Member
Therefore everyone makes up legends about families in boats saving themselves and animals. Got it!
Genesis is different from all other flood legends? That's what your research concluded? Methinks you haven't researched this.
...
Gilgamesh came first.. Possible a 1000 years BEFORE The Noah version.
In that version, the flood was localized.. Nothing Global.. Just a farmer with a few animals on a raft that ride downstream and survive the flood..
Now, that story circulates through the region for almost a millenia.
Over time, its embellished.. Its made grandiose . Just like a game of telephone lasting a centuries, it becomes transformed by the OT writers into this extravaganza.. But thats NOT what it was..
Geologic evidence supports the ORIGINAL tale.. a simple localized flood in one region of the ME..
Got it..?
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No, maybe a few hundred years before Moses, but not the original account. Moses wasn't alive during any of the events of Genesis.
Yes, many hundreds of years after the actual flood, different legends embellished. To be expected. But there are a remarkable amount of flood legends that are global.
Actually, even longer than that, as the flood legends all come from the actual flood itself.
Which is why it's so remarkable. So many legends corroborating the original story.
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